Re: Storylines We Hate

#61

Bizmatech Wrote: Personally, I hate it when isekai/genderbender stories make the isekai/genderbender tag irrelevant after the first handful of chapters.

Genderbenders are almost entirely male to female, and end up being nothing more than an excuse for yuri/lesbian fetishism. The MCs also tend to stop making any reference to their previous gender/sexuality within a week. Boring! Waking up in a different body is not something you get over in a single week!

I agree with you 100%. I actually like gender benders quite a bit, but honestly they're all pointless. I can't even remember the last time I read a bender with a legitimate reason for the swap.  Crossdressing stories usually have more valid reasons, but I don't see many of them. 

Re: Storylines We Hate

#62
@Sinessi

I know bad ones and ones I like but what would you consider a “good reason” for the swap? The person being androgynous and magic happening? Sadistic alterations? Swapping parts around to make them “blend in” to some scenario because they need to be sent in and it needs to match race/gender? Voluntary use as a disguise? Total random magical side effects? Reversion to previous reincarnation? Some magical predator that assimilates its victims into its one-gender-race? A natural property of a parallel mirror dimension? Frankenstein experiments to sew different people together? Experiments in genetic manipulation and nano technology? An error in the Virtual Avatar code? A manifestation of the inner self turning out different from expected? The fine print of a magical girl transformation? That girl apocalypse short story from The Kids Next Door? Mind/soul swap with another individual for arbitrary reasons? A phase of maturation in an alien/magical species? Extreme physical adaptation to a social environment in a shapeshifting creature? A temporary effect from using the power of a bonded magical creature as one being that has the opposite gender? A admin error in the reincarnation process? A rock that grants wishes falling into the hands of some perverted individual victimizing people at random? A natural phenomenon in a species that determines gender through environmental stimulus by various criteria rather than the genetic lottery? A cruel parent who really wanted a boy/girl and would have one by any means necessary? An unfortunate prank by some immature magicians that turned out to be permanent? A illusion that by some twist of fate empowered itself by accident and now overpowers actual reality? A curse placed on the victim by a usurper to prevent their claim to the throne by disguising their true identity? A badly worded wish addressed to a mischievous entity? An error in the machine that scans an androgynous player’s body and creates their virtual avatar as the wrong gender? Fourth wall breaking? A continuity error?

Re: Storylines We Hate

#63

Endless Wrote: @Sinessi

I know bad ones and ones I like but what would you consider a “good reason” for the swap?



I worded that poorly. I didn't mean the actual event that caused the swap. I was referring to the fact that no character development or conflict ever results from the change. I hope that makes more sense. I don't particularly care "how" the transformation happens, as long as you can rationalize why you didn't make the character that specific gender from the beginning of story.

I read a story where the MC was a misogynist and the swap was to force him to resolve his prejudice. You got to see him become a woman and slowly realize how messed up his previous mindset was. Like Bizmatch was saying, the swap is often forgotten after a handful of chapters and ultimately has no impact on the story.

Re: Storylines We Hate

#64
At this point, my husband's audible novels are blurring together. I couldn't tell you where bobiverse ends and where hardluck hank begins. just one after the other.

AND another thing.

age.

are the main characters younger than 30? if so, I really am not interested. At this point, you've got Harry potter clones, Hunger Games clones, Manga ships, and frankly I am tired of characters over the age of 30 being treated like grandparents stuck in their ways who never go out and do stuff. Yeah so that worked in like 1960, when you could legit say never to trust anyone over age 35. It doesn't work in 2020 when you need a doctorate worth of credit hours and a lifetime of debt just to have  a dream of earning more than minimum wage let alone a house and a couple of kids and a corner office.  the worldwide average midpoint being 38. ANd mostly because my life is full of trial and error and a whole bunch of failure, grief, reconciliation and refocus. Just over and over again. and I don't expect that this will end, age 38 is still an age of exploration and uncertainty.

and yes, I have a soft spot for the Chronicles of Narnia, but let's face it, narnia is on the nose allegory.

so 15-20 somethings that have their whole life together are boring at best and surreal. For pity's sake aragorn was 87 years old. Baby faced frodo was 50. There is a very bitter ideal out there that life ends at age 25. that needs to stop immediately unless your target audience is going to order your book out of the scholastic weekly reader.

please make characters that have wisdom and strength to match their age. having wise youths is creepy as hell.

end rant on age. Harems are a flat no for me. also written off are the stories where the MC walks into stockholm syndrome territory. Sorry, I am so sorry because on the whole the series got me involved in LitRP, dear Dakota Krout having his dungeon fall in love with his whisp to the point where he ended the world for her. OK, this was extensively addressed in Anne McCaffrey's Brainship series. Done and done with stockholm syndrome.

instant turn off but also guilty pleasure: arthurian lit, greek mythology lit. Pretty much the backbone of western lit. SO I am always actively seeking to read from non-western authors. ANd I do, fiction and non-fiction.

Yes I totally get it about nonhuman characters being MC. Also I totally do write about characters that are struggling with no longer being human. and also I read about them all the time. But the secret to the immersion there is that the character must have started as human. Metamorphosis wouldn't have been as cool if the guy wasn't a middling nobody human to begin with. It's absolutely overused and badly used. But atthe same time, look at Interview with a Vampire vs. Twilight. on one hand, characters are struggling with their humanity and the loss of it. On the other hand, it's just this cool supernatural otherness for some daydreaming highschooler to stumble into. Using the device of the vampire to highlight the ills of humanity vs. using the vampire as escapism.

dungeon lit, saturated with wish fulfilment, I think should be about deconstructing the reasoning behind game tropes at this point and then worldbuilding as a close second. The MC as a dungeon is a powerful tool to look at how people play games and why people make shared stories. Too often played badly.

Also, I like stats in game. I hate stats in fiction. I am firmly on the star wars side of sci-fi. I've been rewatching star trek and I am finding that while I loved it when I was young, it is entirely cringeworthy. Just, almost every episode is a chance to readdress why exactly we were thinking that way and to realize that this is not holding up. like. at. all. Star wars holds up. Star Trek does not. Glaring example: STV, they spent an entire episode having the native american character teach the white female in charge how to find her spirit animal. Ughgh

stat heavy fiction is like the star trek of fiction. It had its heyday. It's not holding up. Also, I tend to skip stat dumps, songs, poetry and anything that requires an indent unless it's literally there because of the proper way to write a text message. Those are supplimental things. they go in the back of the book, where I can comb through lore and then reread the book. They go in their own chapters which have no other plot in them so that I can skip the chapter without worrying about missing something. They don't go in the middle of a chapter, breaking my reading flow, when they don't have very direct relation to the plot (and I m looking at you, J.R.R Tolkien) ALso, Sorry, Terry Pratchett, your subtitles are amusing, but my kindle can't handle them. those wind up in the back so I miss subtext and a lot of funny things. this is also a problem in Hitchikers guide. Maybe I am just disaffected with brit lit. So much of it seems like trying to talk about your recent bank heist and how you blew it on coke over a smashing game of badminton. That you are watching. while sipping tea. Gonna come right out and say it. That includes Dr. Who. and I want to love Dr. Who very much.

ANyway. Very done with characters that have no clear goal. This is the main beef I have with Wandering Inn. and I love wandering inn. Because not only do the characters wander in and out of that in, but the characters themselves are all wandering around looking for purpose and then getting all extra when the world slaps them in the face with suggestions. Probably won't take that kind of thing from many other authors.


     

Re: Storylines We Hate

#65
That was probably one of the most informative Storylines We Hate post I have read to date.

I agree about the overuse of stats, and my favourite GameLit stories actually tend not to have them, or at least focus on them all that much. A big part of that is because authors don’t seem to incorporate stats into the plot, it’s never a plot point that Hero has to gain one more strength to overcome some obstacle or unlock some ability, and having the growth towards that goal be integral to the story.

I also adore Wandering Inn, though the aimlessness of its characters do leave me guessing what wonderful surprise the nest chapter will be every time, and Slice of Life is a favourite of mine, it would indeed be bad for most otger authors to do and it’s a genuine criticism if plot structure for such a long form story. Wandering Inn is much like a recurring short story in some ways.

The other points are also good ones to keep in mind; though I don’t have much to say about them.

Re: Storylines We Hate

#67
I guess one thing that's really irked me lately is the random slut-shaming and homophobia you get in a lot of translated web novels. Yeah, I get that these are coming from conservative cultures, but that doesn't make it ok. This site also has some problems with it from time to time with some questionable treatment of non-normative sexuality. Which is pretty damn strange considering how accepting it is of unconventional fetishes (furies, yuri, lolis...) like come on! some of those are pretty damn borderline.

Yeah, I have I problems with fetish type tropes like lolis--it makes me damn uncomfortable and gets a hard pass from me along with harems.

Back to my point if you going to have an LGBT+ character (or reference) at least make them a person and not just the butt of a joke, or don't make even the mere mention of homosexuality something absurd. Like, come on, it's 2020! 

mini-rant over

Re: Storylines We Hate

#68

Rainli Wrote: Personally, I avoid all stories with harem tags now because the author often writes the 'romance' like some sort of 'creepy' fantasy-fulfillment, or the way women are portrayed in those type of stories make them sound overly desperate and sad for the MC. I dropped translated webnovels like: Castle of Black Iron, Tales of Demon and Gods,  and Child of Light for this reason. So cringey!  The stories didn't need a weird 'romantic' plotline. Ruined the entire experience for me. I only feel like I missed out on the world-building aspects, but in the end, if I don't care for any of the characters, the world they live in equally doesn't matter.

Lol.

But of course, the market will get oversaturated with the same type of genres once one gets super uber popular. (Looking at you Re: monster) And then boom, you have a marketing gimmick with all sorts of new titles like Re:[Insert strange creature/cool name] or I got reincarnated as [blank]... It's because statistically, those are the genres/novels getting a lot of clicks from people.

I don't think this kind of strategy should get an automatic dismissal because it's clearly following a legit bandwagon, but at the same time, I totally get the frustration. Everyone has different tastes, and clearly, everyone has a different level of tolerability. In all though, I don't think people 'miss out' on reading genres/tags that they don't like. If you go into reading a story with that mindset, you'll eventually lean towards extreme dislike usually. So, it's totally fine to avoid!

What if they have the haremn tag as a side character has one. Not the mc. You'll never know. 

Re: Storylines We Hate

#69

hi&hello Wrote: I guess one thing that's really irked me lately is the random slut-shaming and homophobia you get in a lot of translated web novels. Yeah, I get that these are coming from conservative cultures, but that doesn't make it ok. This site also has some problems with it from time to time with some questionable treatment of non-normative sexuality. Which is pretty damn strange considering how accepting it is of unconventional fetishes (furies, yuri, lolis...) like come on! some of those are pretty damn borderline.

Yeah, I have I problems with fetish type tropes like lolis--it makes me damn uncomfortable and gets a hard pass from me along with harems.

Back to my point if you going to have an LGBT+ character (or reference) at least make them a person and not just the butt of a joke, or don't make even the mere mention of homosexuality something absurd. Like, come on, it's 2020! 

mini-rant over



No, keep ranting! It's downright reprehensible that pedophilia, sexual assault, slavery-as-a-fetish stuff, etc. is huge in fantasy/action web fiction, but having even ONE gay character will get your story ratings-bombed to oblivion. Very okay to rant about something like this because it is a problem that needs to be addressed.

Re: Storylines We Hate

#70
Hmm. I don't actually loathe any genre, save maybe Romance, as such. But that's because the Genre is so restrictive and actually mandates what kinds of characters and story progressions are allowed, or disavows the author. Were I female, I'd turn my back to all of this trope infested, pre programmed, restrictive gorp, and do my own thing, slotting it wherever else fit, and not look back. I've conversed with hundreds of the community and been told bluntly about these restrictions, so can only shake my head.

Im not going to say any other type of plot annoys me, though I understand the annoyance at the Anime/harem / I've been reincarnated asMadXXX   thing. I was a little taken back by how many of these  "Me too" Rip-offs of I was reincarnated as a slime mold  anime reincarnations were online. I assume some of them may be well writ, Which brings me to my tastes.  Now, I like some anime, and appreciate that the dramas follow solid convention and plot building - a plus. On the other hand, the mass of them are hard to tell apart, using much the same formulas in much the same manner, with lead animated characters so similar they are hard to tell apart, even when they are drawn differently, which is not even always the case.  This I perceive as a fail.

Whatever the drama basis, I read what is well writ, plotted, and hopefully spelled well, and usually skip the rest.