RE: Do you guys think it’s murder to kill orc fetuses and orc babies?

#21
3/5/2016 4:23:50 AMBlaiseCorvin Wrote: [ -> ]
3/5/2016 2:28:24 AMcerethor Wrote: [ -> ]*blah blah blah*


You are the first person to mention guilt.

This is an interesting addition.

If someone does something they think is wrong but for the right reasons, I think that opens an entirely new can of worms.


I prefer subtle villainy.

In a fiction, I'm sure the guilt and the 'righteous' cause could serve to humanize a character and their otherwise 'evil' decisions. This is usually part of the core character of a 'gray' Villain; one that you as a reader would root for.

What about a character that does the 'wrong' thing for 'wrong' reasons. The 'wrong' thing escalates into a 'horrible' thing, but the reasons remain petty.

For example... (warning: sad)
Spoiler :

Imagine a bully character in a school based fiction. A bully takes money from the protagonist. The protagonist had brought a lot of money to school that day so that they could buy something important afterwards for their poor family. The protagonist's mother is barely making ends meet, and doesn't have time to go herself.

 The bully takes the money because they come from a broken home. We see how hard they've had it, and the bully being hurtful to others is struggling to find relief in any way they can. They started taking peoples money so that they could buy things and amuse themselves, hoping they could fill the emptiness inside them.

Fast forward a few days. The money was really the last of the protagonist family's savings. The mother foregoes some food so that her child can eat. However, working two jobs on an empty stomach, along with the stress, is too much. She passes out and falls down some stairs. She ends up in a coma.

Now.

To the reader, is the bully a villain?

What about to the protagonist? Is the bully a villain to the protagonist?

Continuing the story...

The protagonist confronts the bully. The bully is worried too, but has never learned other ways to communicate with people, so they respond with laughter. The protagonist is overwhelmed with grief and attacks the bully, accidentally managing to kill the bully. Years later the mother of the protagonist wakes from her coma, only to find that her child is in jail.

Now who is the villain?

RE: Do you guys think it’s murder to kill orc fetuses and orc babies?

#22
The bully is obviously at fault for this slippery slope of wrong. It isn't sad in the slightest. He instigated it by taking a kid's savings, he comes from a bad home? Big deal. From the looks of it if he is spending it on things to amuse himself, he is obviously not in a bad position economically. He can easily deal with it if he went reported abuse.

The literal poor child on the other hand. Is a victim that was thrown into the worst possible position, his mother in a coma, and his assailant free. With the temporary loss of his mother, his source of living, and his only solace in life is gone. All because of an individual that could not understand the pain of others and only relishes in self pity.

The victim killed the bully but... it was an accident. His actions were wrong, he wanted to hurt and killed instead. Yes, his actions were wrong, but like you said the real question is "Who is the villain?" It is without a doubt, unquestionably, the bully's fault in all of the events that brought this upon himself.

And now.... on the topic at hand, sorry for the tangent. If you want to know the "What happens after" dilemma then I think if you want your character to be a bystander of good; an excellent way for growth in my opinion is that he realized murder is murder no matter the context. He will feel guilt but he will learn to overcome it and in return make him a stronger person.

If you are willing to fight for your cause because you know. It is an absolute. It is the right thing to do, and you carry out whatever is necessary but also know that you have to hold onto your morals. There could be a whole arc to how the character handles guilt and questions his morals and how far he is willing to go for his cause.

Just my two cents on the matter, I might be ignorant in some of my views so please. Rip me to shreds if I am. \o/

Re: Do you guys think it’s murder to kill orc fetuses and orc babies?

#25

batotit Wrote: jeezes, do you really need to necropost?

honestly, what is wrong with necro-posting if i the discussion is very interesting, and still relevant, and i believe have something to add to the discussion?

just because the last comment was like 2 years dose this make it bad to necro it? especially when there are on the front page discussions that are much older but get to have comments added almost weekly?

threads exist to be seen, and talked. even by people that are late to the party.

Btw, i really do wish that the order of threads will be by the date of first post, instead of the date of the last post

Re: Do you guys think it’s murder to kill orc fetuses and orc babies?

#26


emperor Wrote: >goblin slayer has entered the chat

you should read/watch that anime, it has a very good explanation.

no matter what you do, a goblin child will grow to be a goblin and you cant change it. you can either soil your hands with his blood, or soil your hands with the blood of the innocents he will surely kill do to your inaction.




This is why I despise the High Fantasy Put Into Modern Morality deal that poor writers do. It's OK to have objectively evil goblins and orcs in Lord of the Rings because that's just a big fairy tale for kids. Putting that in some story where they grapple with right and wrong and all of the cultures are fleshed out? It's fantasy racism to the point that it worries me that the author is using goblins as a metaphor for something else.

So in Lord of the Rings, killing orc babies is probably "just" but also the heroes are too noble to do something like that even if they are 100% guaranteed to be evil in the end. In Warcraft or something, though? It's depraved to even consider the subject.