RE: Are mature themes harmful?

#21
11/10/2015 03:02:23Azareal Wrote: [ -> ]Honestly speaking though, if we were to pick out all of Harry Potter's flaws, then we'd be here all night.
It's a kids story, I'll leave it at that. Every argument you could possibly make would be negated by every plot hole in the story.


It's like you think that covering plot holes is the most important thing in writing fiction.

And yes, it's a kids story. But that speaks nothing for its quality. Lots of classic kids stories are miles better than the "mature" stories we have here.

RE: Are mature themes harmful?

#22
11/10/2015 03:08:33Ugoki Wrote: [ -> ]
11/10/2015 03:02:23Azareal Wrote: [ -> ]Honestly speaking though, if we were to pick out all of Harry Potter's flaws, then we'd be here all night.
It's a kids story, I'll leave it at that. Every argument you could possibly make would be negated by every plot hole in the story.


It's like you think that covering plot holes is the most important thing in writing fiction.

And yes, it's a kids story. But that speaks nothing for its quality. Lots of classic kids stories are miles better than the "mature" stories we have here.

I'm just saying that if you drag out an argument, then it'll go full circle around a dozen or so plot holes which can't be explained, because.. Once again, it's a kid's story. Perfectionism might not be king for writing a kid's story, but plot holes can most certainly bury your arguments.

Yes, I'm aware of that. Just about anything would be considered a masterpiece compared to the tons upon tons of garbage on here. Sure, there are some better ones, but they're buried in the dirt.
I don't believe I ever referred to them as "well written".

RE: Are mature themes harmful?

#25
11/10/2015 04:28:53Benjinator12 Wrote: [ -> ]
11/10/2015 02:56:18Ugoki Wrote: [ -> ]You're giving SAO too much credit.

Oh, it's no masterpiece. But there's no denying that the first arc was stronger, and the second was trying too hard to be "edgy".

I'm fairly sure that it's pretty far from being a masterpiece. Even the author didn't like it, and decided to do a rewrite, if I remember correctly. Yes, the second arc was much worse than the first, but that's mainly because they had to throw in the most painful to watch villain possible.

It still doesn't mean that the first arc was that great. It's time skip after time skip. Harem building.
The occasional scene of the MC slaying a boss, etc. With the MC coming back to life after the antagonist kills him at the end. Heck, we never even got an answer as to why the antagonist started the death game. Even he doesn't know.

RE: Are mature themes harmful?

#27
11/10/2015 04:41:51Azareal Wrote: [ -> ]I'm fairly sure that it's pretty far from being a masterpiece. Even the author didn't like it, and decided to do a rewrite, if I remember correctly. Yes, the second arc was much worse than the first, but that's mainly because they had to throw in the most painful to watch villain possible.

It still doesn't mean that the first arc was that great. It's time skip after time skip. Harem building.
The occasional scene of the MC slaying a boss, etc. With the MC coming back to life after the antagonist kills him at the end. Heck, we never even got an answer as to why the antagonist started the death game. Even he doesn't know.


Again, I'm not trying to say that it was. Just using it as an example that "mature" themes don't always make something "mature".

RE: Are mature themes harmful?

#28
11/10/2015 03:56:50Ugoki Wrote: [ -> ]
11/10/2015 03:12:06Azareal Wrote: [ -> ]I'm just saying that if you drag out an argument, then it'll go full circle around a dozen or so plot holes which can't be explained, because..


Why can't it be explained? Why must the author explain everything?

There's a difference between "explaining everything" and leaving plot holes.

Plot holes break consistency, undermine past scenes, and show the author doesn't really care about what they're writing. Things will make little sense and the reader will be frustrated, unable to immerse themselves in the story.

Explaining everything removes any suspense, mystery, and adventure from the story, effectively making it pointless. It becomes more of a lab report than a story.

So they're both bad and absolutely shouldn't be done, but for different reasons. If you think plot holes are perfectly okay then you need to stop criticising the work of others and learn something about proper literature.

No comment on how amazing and infallible you seem to think the Harry Potter series is.

RE: Are mature themes harmful?

#29
"Mature" themes are harmful. Very harmful.
Particularly, those scenes full of gore, torture, etc. which are thrown for the sole reason of getting extra views (it's a current trend, so it gets tons of views), rather than to actually improve the story. Also, you don't need a massacre every ten chapters, just to drive the point home that the world is "serious business" where people can be killed at any time.

This is especially the case, when you have a poorly written romance or harem thrown in alongside it. It just makes everything feel weak and amateurish.

RE: Are mature themes harmful?

#32
11/30/2015 20:35:38Ultrabenosaurus Wrote: [ -> ]No kids thrown into fires yet, but I think you'll like this: http://royalroadl.com/fiction/4244


Thanks for the suggestion. However, I am not into VR stories unless they somehow become a real world or have very real world implications like death.

All the drama and events seem to become pointless once the MC logs off the game is why. I never understood why people enjoy VR based stories, but meh everyone has their own taste.

RE: Are mature themes harmful?

#33
11/30/2015 10:03:49Ultrabenosaurus Wrote: [ -> ]
11/10/2015 03:56:50Ugoki Wrote: [ -> ]
11/10/2015 03:12:06Azareal Wrote: [ -> ]I'm just saying that if you drag out an argument, then it'll go full circle around a dozen or so plot holes which can't be explained, because..


Why can't it be explained? Why must the author explain everything?

There's a difference between "explaining everything" and leaving plot holes.

Plot holes break consistency, undermine past scenes, and show the author doesn't really care about what they're writing. Things will make little sense and the reader will be frustrated, unable to immerse themselves in the story.

Explaining everything removes any suspense, mystery, and adventure from the story, effectively making it pointless. It becomes more of a lab report than a story.

So they're both bad and absolutely shouldn't be done, but for different reasons. If you think plot holes are perfectly okay then you need to stop criticising the work of others and learn something about proper literature.

No comment on how amazing and infallible you seem to think the Harry Potter series is.


Ha, I know perfectly well the difference between those two. What I meant was minor "plot holes", stuff that ain't explained by the author, can be explained by yourself by putting the dots together just by reading the story.

And no, Harry Potter isn't perfect. There are authors with better grasp on dialogue and comedy like Montgomery and there are authors with better worldbuilding like Tolkien. But it's damn good nonetheless.

11/30/2015 14:44:42Azareal Wrote: [ -> ]"Mature" themes are harmful. Very harmful.
Particularly, those scenes full of gore, torture, etc. which are thrown for the sole reason of getting extra views (it's a current trend, so it gets tons of views), rather than to actually improve the story. Also, you don't need a massacre every ten chapters, just to drive the point home that the world is "serious business" where people can be killed at any time.

This is especially the case, when you have a poorly written romance or harem thrown in alongside it. It just makes everything feel weak and amateurish.


This. The worst thing that can happen is when authors use it as a crutch for pity gathering for the protagonists. It's not that easy to make sympathetic protagonists, you know.

11/30/2015 19:10:54Techblade Wrote: [ -> ]I love seeing people dying and getting tortured.


Well, that doesn't sound psychotic at all...

RE: Are mature themes harmful?

#34
11/30/2015 19:10:54Techblade Wrote: [ -> ]I love seeing people dying and getting tortured. Mature themes are only harmful to those that dislike it.
Damn shame I yet to see a story where they throw kids into a fire. Berserk does mature themes well for me.

Not particularly, most of the time it's.. They tick all of the boxes, and shoehorn everything in, simply because it'll get more views.
It's a trend. Were you interested in reading these five years ago? Ten? How about five years from now?

And it's hard to take a tragedy seriously when you have a massacre once every ten chapters, you simply get desensitized to it all.
And then, the MC turns around anyway, and has happy sex with his harem. Or we have a scene of how every other person is envious of him.
I said "mature" themes, not mature themes.

12/01/2015 01:06:12Ugoki Wrote: [ -> ]Ha, I know perfectly well the difference between those two. What I meant was minor "plot holes", stuff that ain't explained by the author, can be explained by yourself by putting the dots together just by reading the story.

And time travel is a "minor" plot hole then..? Not only does it have time travel, but it was introduced for a really petty reason like.. Needing it to attend more classes.
That plot device alone could undo the entire plot. Just travel back to when Voldemort was a child, and kill him. Simple.

What I'll say is that you should never use time travel as a plot device. Not unless, you *really* know what you're doing.

RE: Are mature themes harmful?

#35
12/01/2015 16:49:41Azareal Wrote: [ -> ]Not particularly, most of the time it's.. They tick all of the boxes, and shoehorn everything in, simply because it'll get more views.
It's a trend. Were you interested in reading these five years ago? Ten? How about five years from now?

Personally, I have been interested in such entertainment (TV, books, movies, games, comics, etc) containing "graphic" scenes for as long as I can remember. I do get what you mean about the ones that just cram the elements in like ticking off boxes, but not all are like that and if done well I find them far better than what they would likely have been without the mature stuff.


12/01/2015 16:49:41Azareal Wrote: [ -> ]And it's hard to take a tragedy seriously when you have a massacre once every ten chapters, you simply get desensitized to it all.
And then, the MC turns around anyway, and has happy sex with his harem. Or we have a scene of how every other person is envious of him.
I said "mature" themes, not mature themes.

I'm not into proper "tragedy" at all. If I like a story I'll automatically take on the perspective of the MC and empathise with other characters, so when there's a betrayal or their family gets massacred/raped/enslaved or whatever then I can't deal with it. Thankfully most with that tag on RRL just mean that the MC's and/or their family die in the prologue, but afterwards everything's normal.


12/01/2015 16:49:41Azareal Wrote: [ -> ]
12/01/2015 01:06:12Ugoki Wrote: [ -> ]Ha, I know perfectly well the difference between those two. What I meant was minor "plot holes", stuff that ain't explained by the author, can be explained by yourself by putting the dots together just by reading the story.

And time travel is a "minor" plot hole then..? Not only does it have time travel, but it was introduced for a really petty reason like.. Needing it to attend more classes.
That plot device alone could undo the entire plot. Just travel back to when Voldemort was a child, and kill him. Simple.

What I'll say is that you should never use time travel as a plot device. Not unless, you *really* know what you're doing.

Like Steins;Gate. That is some epic time travel shit right there.

RE: Are mature themes harmful?

#36
12/01/2015 17:13:07Ultrabenosaurus Wrote: [ -> ]
12/01/2015 16:49:41Azareal Wrote: [ -> ]And it's hard to take a tragedy seriously when you have a massacre once every ten chapters, you simply get desensitized to it all.
And then, the MC turns around anyway, and has happy sex with his harem. Or we have a scene of how every other person is envious of him.
I said "mature" themes, not mature themes.

I'm not into proper "tragedy" at all. If I like a story I'll automatically take on the perspective of the MC and empathise with other characters, so when there's a betrayal or their family gets massacred/raped/enslaved or whatever then I can't deal with it. Thankfully most with that tag on RRL just mean that the MC's and/or their family die in the prologue, but afterwards everything's normal.

One example is MGA. His family gets massacred, because.. Uhh.. One of the spoiled rich kids doesn't like him.
And then, there was a scene in a later chapter where they were trying to kill one of the surviving family members, because.. They don't like him.
Same with another one ten or so chapters later, because.. Some random spoiled rich kid didn't like his brother..?
And then, his school was slaughtered because, superpower x doesn't like him.
And then, there was super power y digging up his families graves, throwing the bones in sewage, and casting spells to make them reincarnate as dogs forever or whatever.

Some just like doing it over and over and over.