So, this week, I finally managed to crawl my way up to Rank 630. Posted my chapter as usual on Friday, and blamo, first thing on Jan 21st, I open up my dashboard to see that I've dropped all the way back to rank 1000. No new reviews, but what do I see in my ratings sidebar tab? 0.5 stars. I'd been keeping my readers updated on the ranking of the story in the author's notes as a celebratory note, to encourage ratings and reviews and to share the cheer; I guess someone felt that the story didn't deserve to get up to the vaunted 500 ranks, since I simultaneously lost a follow and a favourite. 

Lesson learned I guess?

At first I was pissed. Then I was discouraged. I'll admit, I even went back and removed most of the mentions of ranking in my recent author's notes. 

But now that the anger has cooled, it feels like a badge of honour. Like, am I really a web serial author if I haven't gotten dunked on? I guess what I'm asking is, can we get an achievement for 0.5 stars? One that you would get after say getting a 0.5 star review and then posting a chapter anyway? Just kidding, though it would be funny. Fits with the whole gamified encouragement mechanic too.

Anyways, not here to complain, just thought I'd add another thread of positivity around the topic, considering a pretty upbeat post by Bunbon did a lot to help me get out of my funk. If you find this thread after however long and are feeling down from a bad rating/review, hang in there and keep going :). Take heart in the fact that you made someone feel so strongly that they felt the need to put you down over it. Now I'm off to write chap 54, oddly enough, the whole thing has just made me want to write more.
Apologies if this is a little wordy, I can get chatty at times. The number of single sentence comments I've replied to with entire paragraphs.... 

Spite: the great motivator! 

In any case, congratulations on your rankings, even though they might not be what you hope for at the moment. It's still a great testament to all the work you're doing. It's very clear that a lot of people also believe in your story, so it's really inspiring to see you persevere despite the initial sting those negative ratings are meant to deliver.

I do think it would be cool if there was a way to create an achievement for posting after a 0.5 review.... I recoil at the thought of putting the coders through figuring the logistics of that out, but I think it's a great idea if it can be implemented easily!

Synod Wrote: I guess someone felt that the story didn't deserve to get up to the vaunted 500 ranks

Nope.  Don't assume anything about the person's motivation!  It could be that they don't like the letter J and you started the chapter with the word, "Just."  It could be that you named a character "Bob" and their abusive stepfather is named Bob.  It could be that they want to read about magical girls and your story is titled, "Weapons of War," and it's about weapons instead of magical girls (as nonsensical as that is).

By the way, I fully agree with your mindset to consider it an accomplishment, of sorts.  It IS!  No famous writer had no haters.  If you don't get any 0.5 star ratings you'll never become a true author. 

I just got another 0.5 star rating recently.  Looking in the premium analytics, what's funny is that the few I got on this fiction all were provided around chapters 6-8.  So basically, the story was so bad it deserves 0.5 out of 5 stars, yet they made it through >10,000 words before realizing this and dropping it?  Obviously, 0.5 stars doesn't mean to them what it means to a more reasonable person.   It just means they didn't like something and wanted to exert some influence (perhaps this is the only place in their life where they feel like they have power).  Of course, none of those people wrote a review or fessed up in the comments with their reasoning (or if they did, they didn't admit they provided the low rating).

Welcome!  Glad you joined us.  Honestly?  If you got that high up in the ranks before a 0.5* just keep on trucking, you are doing just fine.  I'm a big fan of the anonymous review system, with this one caveat.  A 0.5 rating should always require a full review.  You should have to use your words, if you are going to suggest that another's are so poor, and your name should be attached to that.  I would bet there would be far fewer of these going around and the ones that did get posted would be fairly well legitimately earned.

Although, now I think on it, what exactly would you have to publish that it would actually merit 0.5* rating?  A Naruto in the world of Graboids fanfiction written as a series of limericks in Wing-dings font?

Trathnonen Wrote: Although, now I think on it, what exactly would you have to publish that it would actually merit 0.5* rating?  A Naruto in the world of Graboids fanfiction written as a series of limericks in Wing-dings font?

I've thought about intentionally writing something at the 0.5 star level just to see how the community would react to it, but the story wouldn't even make it through the initial submission filters that the RR staff use to accept stories...

If you wrote a bleh chapter 1, got it approved, then released a terrible chapter 2, the staff also might get mad at you.

The key must just be to insert a large number of controversial issues.  Also, strongly take a side, while ridiculing the other side, each time.  Then, completely contradict yourself when it comes to the next issue (like swing super right on one issue then super left on another).  Eventually, you'll alienate everyone!

Quote:Although, now I think on it, what exactly would you have to publish that it would actually merit 0.5* rating?  A Naruto in the world of Graboids fanfiction written as a series of limericks in Wing-dings font?

I starting to think, the rating has nothing to do with "quality" at all, but only like or dislike. Don't like the font type used? BAMM! Don't like the word "obviously"? BAMM! Not interested in, say, dungeon core? BAMM! Whatever? BAMM!

Quote: A 0.5 rating should always require a full review.  

You would get 1-Star-ratings instead. Make 1-star require a full review? You would get 1,5 stars. Make those require a full review? You would get 2 stars. Continue until only 5-stars would be free.

Quote:I've thought about intentionally writing something at the 0.5 star level just to see how the community would react to it

Forget, you ever heard about grammar, and just write random words.
But then again, there are a lot of fics with abyssmal grammar (to the point of being unreadable), and still with quite good ratings.

I know! Hitler and Stalin being summoned by some clueless idiots to save their world! While they both start to exterminate everyone else, they spew their respective propaganda! 
I would give you a 0,5-star for that. I would even make fake accounts, just to give you more!

Aly Wrote: Spite: the great motivator!

Funnily enough, the chapter that got me the rating had a line that went: 'I guess greed really is the great motivator'
Clearly my thought was just a little off haha.

Quote:AlyI do think it would be cool if there was a way to create an achievement for posting after a 0.5 review.... I recoil at the thought of putting the coders through figuring the logistics of that out, but I think it's a great idea if it can be implemented easily!

It's an interesting idea, but it still incentivizes 0.5* ratings in a roundabout way, so I doubt it'd be added. Though I guess the reverse could be said as well--incentivization for those who have received 0.5* rating. There's a debate in there somewhere lol

James Wrote: Nope.  Don't assume anything about the person's motivation!  It could be that they don't like the letter J and you started the chapter with the word, "Just."  It could be that you named a character "Bob" and their abusive stepfather is named Bob.  It could be that they want to read about magical girls and your story is titled, "Weapons of War," and it's about weapons instead of magical girls (as nonsensical as that is).

You're absolutely right. It just felt weird since the review was posted on the most recent chapter (Chap 53), after I mentioned how close I was getting to top 500 (I'm about 125k words into the story so far) and then I immediately lost a single number in both followers and favourites. Big breath of copium from me, I can recognize that. Feels better to attribute it to a troll, rather than someone who truly believed my work deserved that rating.

Trathnonen Wrote: Welcome!  Glad you joined us.  Honestly?  If you got that high up in the ranks before a 0.5* just keep on trucking, you are doing just fine.

Cheers! I don't intend to quit any time soon! Eventually, another five or so good ratings will outweigh the 0.5, and I'll get back up there.

I realize that the rating system is heavily debated in the forums --I stumbled on quite a few last night lol-- and you've all brought up some good points, but I'm not really here to debate that. I wasn't here before it was implemented, and I can't really think of a viable system that would serve as an alternative. Every system is going to have its flaws, we have to work around them. In the end, I'm just trying to spread some good cheer about the whole thing and maybe, maybe, indulge in a bit of copium. 

Either way thanks for all your kind words! Really hard to explain to people who don't understand how RR works, which makes it hard to get encouragement IRL. 
Here's to trucking on despite the haters! 

Quote:I've thought about intentionally writing something at the 0.5 star level just to see how the community would react to it,

Thinking about it, could "we" have a competition, where participants post their intentionally excrement stories, and the one who gets the most 0,5 stars after a set time wins an Achievement or RR-wide recognition as the... dunno... Half-Star-Champion?
Or would that be trolling the site?

Mr Wrote: Or would that be trolling the site?

Probably trolling the site lol, I can't deny that it would be a fun experiment haha. I have no idea where I'd go to suggest such a thing, or if I'd even have the time to participate, but it sure would be funny.

This sounds like back when you used to watch a Youtube video some comment would go "Hey look, it doesn't have any down votes!" and then someone would immediately down vote it just to be the first to do it. Just one of the reasons why they took the down vote counter away. Let's be honest, anyone that gives a .5 and didn't tell why they did isn't there to be helpful.

I have been very careful to never bring up my rank or rating for this reason. As fun as it is to rise on the charts every time the number dings, all you're doing is opening the door for others to nuke you out of existence. Hell, even making this post feels like I'm unnecessarily lifting my head out of a bush in a forest filled with hunters. It's just asking for trouble.

That said, I do think it's worth pointing out that most neg reviews are from people who genuinely don't like what they read. There's nothing wrong with that. No one can appeal to everyone. But the notion that there are folks who troll the internet, downvoting everything they see isn't a real thing. People make those moves because you did something they didn't like, not to make you feel bad. Phrased differently, there's almost always a cause to the effect, usually how your writing is perceived.

Of course, now that I've played the contrarian, there's a non-zero chance that a jaded author will see my post, disagree, and give me a .5 star just to prove that it happens "for no reason" sometimes. I'm not blind to how the internet works. 

This is why it's better to just... Not talk about it in the first place S:

Trathnonen Wrote: A 0.5 rating should always require a full review.  You should have to use your words, if you are going to suggest that another's are so poor, and your name should be attached to that.  I would bet there would be far fewer of these going around and the ones that did get posted would be fairly well legitimately earned.

I agree with the requirement of a full review. Don't agree with the name being attached to it.

I'd imagine most 0.5 or 1 star reviews are trolls. 

I mean, if you don't enjoy reading it, you usually move on. That said, in order to make the standard of writings better, we do need some honesty in the feedback given instead of straight 5 star reviews.

I think an anonymous advanced review system would work well. And being forced to give feedback for low reviews would also work well. 
If someone felt strongly enough to give less than 2.5 stars, they should be able to justify it.

But yeah, it is a badge of honour in someway. Don't make it till you have haters.

mneue Wrote: I have been very careful to never bring up my rank or rating for this reason. As fun as it is to rise on the charts every time the number dings, all you're doing is opening the door for others to nuke you out of existence. Hell, even making this post feels like I'm unnecessarily lifting my head out of a bush in a forest filled with hunters. It's just asking for trouble.

That said, I do think it's worth pointing out that most neg reviews are from people who genuinely don't like what they read. There's nothing wrong with that. No one can appeal to everyone. But the notion that there are folks who troll the internet, downvoting everything they see isn't a real thing. People make those moves because you did something they didn't like, not to make you feel bad. Phrased differently, there's almost always a cause to the effect, usually how your writing is perceived.

Of course, now that I've played the contrarian, there's a non-zero chance that a jaded author will see my post, disagree, and give me a .5 star just to prove that it happens "for no reason" sometimes. I'm not blind to how the internet works. 

This is why it's better to just... Not talk about it in the first place S:

Haha, can totally see that happening. 
We've put a target on our backs

mneue Wrote: But the notion that there are folks who troll the internet, downvoting everything they see isn't a real thing.

I would word it a bit differently than you did for this 'notion,' but there definitely are people on the internet trying to be hurtful rather than simply being cold.

Storm-Z1 Wrote: Haha, can totally see that happening. 
We've put a target on our backs

A real shame too. We should all like to feel good about ourselves and share our progress when we get it, but doing so in an anonymous environment is just asking for trouble.

James Wrote: I would word it a bit differently than you did for this 'notion,' but there definitely are people on the internet trying to be hurtful rather than simply being cold.

Of course. I don't disagree in the slightest, hence the paradoxic nature of my post.

This is the internet. Some people are terrible people. By talking about them (or in my case, suggesting there are less out there), we're willing those people from the ether to target us.

But are all of .5 stars born from that type of direction less trolling? Are most? Even a plurality? I remain skeptical. I think that the vast majority of the time a .5 star rating is given, it's done by someone who didn't like what they read, and want others to think the same. That's just how most behavior gets driven on these sites.

Edit: literally true to form, I just got dinged by a half star review... Less than an hour after making the post. Let's not be naive and pretend those aren't related.

By the way, that's why I don't rate any stories unless I leave a review.  If you look at my profile, you can see I've left 0 ratings so you can't blame me for 0.5-star bombing anyone's fiction.

Thinking deeper about it, the problem with asking people to leave a review for a 0.5 rating is that then then you'll never get them which skews the ratings just as much as the troll ratings, but on the off chance that you do it might be for a completely arbitrary reason like: "The author used 'It's' instead of 'Its' and that pisses me off."

If anything maybe there needs to be a threshold. Like if you have mostly 4s and 5s, then a 1 or .5 seems out of place and might be discarded without a review. If you have some 3s that lower your average, there's a potential that you at least have issues that need sorting out, so if someone slams you with a low score it would make a bit more sense to be a rational rating to be counted without a review.

While it's probably way more complicated, I think that's kinda how Steam's algorithm sorts out gaming review bombs.

Quote:Of course, now that I've played the contrarian, there's a non-zero chance that a jaded author will see my post, disagree, and give me a .5 star just to prove that it happens "for no reason" sometimes. I'm not blind to how the internet works. 

Yup, I've got another 0,5, just after participating in this thread (and a 1,5, but I do have an idea why I got that)... Strangely, every time I start to approach the mythical 4-star-barrier, I get a 0,5 or 1,5 star rating. It can't be quality, since the story isn't that bad.

Quote:But are all of .5 stars born from that type of direction less trolling? 

Definitely NOT. 
If we forget the like-dislike axis, and only focus on "objective quality", there are... khmmm... no, I won't finish that sentence. Dig through the bowels of RR, and be surprised.
But, since a majority of ratings are done on the like-dislike axis, forgetting "objective quality" completely, I don't think 0,5* are such a surprise. On the other side of the coin are the 5* ratings, done on the like-dislike axis. I haven't seen anyone complaining about those ;)

Yes, it hurts to get a rating below 2*. 
Unfortunately, it is not made absolutely clear, what a rating means. Is it purely like-dislike or is it "objective quality"?

EDIT: Please don't give me another 0,5* just because I wrote in this thread. I have enough bad ratings as it is. THX!

Congratulations! You are now a Real Royal Road Writer ™! 

I also concur with everyone: there should be an achievement for the first 0.5 stars. It really is an achievement because you need visibility before getting that one guy who likes to drop 0.5s, lol. 

James Wrote: It just means they didn't like something and wanted to exert some influence (perhaps this is the only place in their life where they feel like they have power).  Of course, none of those people wrote a review or fessed up in the comments with their reasoning (or if they did, they didn't admit they provided the low rating).

I remember someone posted on the forums last year about one of the really popular stories having a star rating he considered "too high." He said he gave it a 0.5 to make it "closer to what it should be." The rest of the post was a long rant about the RR rating system and how the people who rated that popular story were wrong to rate it so highly. 

...Yeah. I suspect there are more people like this than we know, but most of them are silent raters and don't post rants on the forums or comments sections. 

James Wrote: I've thought about intentionally writing something at the 0.5 star level just to see how the community would react to it, but the story wouldn't even make it through the initial submission filters that the RR staff use to accept stories...

If you wrote a bleh chapter 1, got it approved, then released a terrible chapter 2, the staff also might get mad at you.

This would be hilarious. Maybe we RR writers should get together and make a hilariously bad parody story to earn those 0.5s? 

I'm not sure if the staff would get mad at you. I think the 1st chapter vetting isn't even really about quality, it's about content and making sure it's not a bot and/or plagiarism, though maybe I'm wrong about that. 

Quote:The key must just be to insert a large number of controversial issues.  Also, strongly take a side, while ridiculing the other side, each time.  Then, completely contradict yourself when it comes to the next issue (like swing super right on one issue then super left on another).  Eventually, you'll alienate everyone!

Honestly? Even that wouldn't be a 0.5 if written with mechanical competence. Good style and mechanics goes a long way, even if the content is hilariously bad. 

bokhi Wrote: Congratulations! You are now a Real Royal Road Writer ™! 

I also concur with everyone: there should be an achievement for the first 0.5 stars. It really is an achievement because you need visibility before getting that one guy who likes to drop 0.5s, lol. 

James Wrote: It just means they didn't like something and wanted to exert some influence (perhaps this is the only place in their life where they feel like they have power).  Of course, none of those people wrote a review or fessed up in the comments with their reasoning (or if they did, they didn't admit they provided the low rating).

I remember someone posted on the forums last year about one of the really popular stories having a star rating he considered "too high." He said he gave it a 0.5 to make it "closer to what it should be." The rest of the post was a long rant about the RR rating system and how the people who rated that popular story were wrong to rate it so highly. 

...Yeah. I suspect there are more people like this than we know, but most of them are silent raters and don't post rants on the forums or comments sections.

To be fair, a lot of people DO click 5 stars if they generally like the story, even if they know it's not all that amazing.  I'm not sure if they're compensating for the people who give unreasonably low ratings, or if it's the other way around.  Chicken and the egg?

Quote:

James Wrote: I've thought about intentionally writing something at the 0.5 star level just to see how the community would react to it, but the story wouldn't even make it through the initial submission filters that the RR staff use to accept stories...

If you wrote a bleh chapter 1, got it approved, then released a terrible chapter 2, the staff also might get mad at you.

This would be hilarious. Maybe we RR writers should get together and make a hilariously bad parody story to earn those 0.5s? 

I'm not sure if the staff would get mad at you. I think the 1st chapter vetting isn't even really about quality, it's about content and making sure it's not a bot and/or plagiarism, though maybe I'm wrong about that.

The rules in the knowledge-base actually do address it to an extent.  If the story is too bad they reserve the right to disapprove it, either at the beginning or whenever.

Quote:

Quote:The key must just be to insert a large number of controversial issues.  Also, strongly take a side, while ridiculing the other side, each time.  Then, completely contradict yourself when it comes to the next issue (like swing super right on one issue then super left on another).  Eventually, you'll alienate everyone!

Honestly? Even that wouldn't be a 0.5 if written with mechanical competence. Good style and mechanics goes a long way, even if the content is hilariously bad. 

We're talking about how some people would rate it, not how they should rate it!