Yes, you can.

But here's the thing.

Can you handle it if you do?

Because making it big, getting a big following, getting a dedicated following, is work and effort.

Times are tough, life is hard, and we had buy our own fucking birthday cards.

You can make it big without hitting rising stars.

But can you handle it once you do?

I second what a lot of the others have said about just being persistent. Sometimes it's not going to be your first book, second, or even seventh which hits big. Rising Stars shouldn't be used as the sole measure of success.

Wyatt_Wriots Wrote:

TheKingofKirby Wrote:

realTENSAi Wrote: Thanks for all this answers, appreciate it! I'm thinking about posting short stories, to improve my writing and also to see what the readers say. What do you all think about this idea?

Good luck with getting any kind of feedback from readers. Most are silent. Short stories don't do well here either. If feedback is what you're looking for, your best bet is to go to the critique forum and ask for review swaps.

Royal Road is NOT the place to write if you're looking to money. Yes, there are some that can do it but there's so many people here now looking for Patreon subs that the market is thin. It's like trying to spread the last drop of butter across an entire loaf of bread.

You have to write within very narrow genres. You have to do a lot of begging (begging for shoutouts, begging for patreon subscribers, begging for reviews). You need a lot of luck. And a lot of success on RR is competitive, meaning that someone getting exposure on the front page or making money comes at the cost of someone else not getting said exposure/money.

There are better places to try to earn money writing. Hell, you'd might even make a few bucks off your short stories if you tidy them up a bit and post them on kindle vella or kindle unlimited.

Besides, trying to get ahead in RR leads can lead to some bad habits for traditional writing. It's practically encourage to give up on stories if they don't hit the front page in a month. Abandoning projects is the sign of a novice writer, not to mention it hinders your ability to follow through on proper story structure. Not to mention that editing, planning and proper grammar are second to quantity and frequency of chapters, another bad habit for self-pub and trad pub.

KU is also very difficult to break into now, and suffers many of the same issues you pointed out in your thread. The truth is, writing is competitive, far more so than the past. Its difficult for a newcomer to break into the scene without, at least, having 5-10 books on their belt.

Hell, a famous FB group is known as 20 to 50K essentially saying you need to write 20 books before you'll make your first 50K. Which is insane.

I've seen a lot of authors point to serialized writing as "the new thing" now that KU is so overburdened. Obviously, we won't know if thats true until it happens, but with how much serialization is being pushed now, I can see it.

Of course it's going to be difficult. Making decent money doing almost anything is difficult and requires immense effort. What job exists where making 50k is easy? But making actual money from writing is infinitely easier on other sites than RR. Do you really think it's easier for an average Joe to make 50k on RR than it is to make it on KU or Amazon? Or even other paid book services?

Getting people to subscribe to a Patreon is a hard ask. Even harder when an entire site is all competing for the same shallow pond of people willing to dish out monthly subscriptions for a handful of stories.

All I'm saying that if you want to see any return on your hard work, pretty much any paid service will offer you a better chance than RR.

If your story gets 700 reads (as in 700 pages read), you can get 3 dollars. You can get absolutely nothing from RR having a hundred thousand views if people don't take the extra effort to subscribe to your patreon. 

One other factor to keep in mind: the marketing guide is for litRPGs and you aren't writing one. They are the dominant market force on RR so if you're not writing one of course you're not going to see the same level of success, nor can you define your marketability by the same metrics. You cannot measure an off genre story by the success of the defining genre on the platform. Is it possible to be successful with a non-litRPG? Of course. But you need to define your success differently. If you want to write for money you need to write to the market's whims, not your own.

Also now that the marketing guide has been out for a long time and so many people have followed it, that guide is the bare minimum standard. We're at the point where new writers should be extrapolating their next steps and evolving past the basics laid out in that post because everyone is using them and it won't push you ahead of the competition anymore.

Cymas Wrote: One other factor to keep in mind: the marketing guide is for litRPGs and you aren't writing one. They are the dominant market force on RR so if you're not writing one of course you're not going to see the same level of success, nor can you define your marketability by the same metrics. You cannot measure an off genre story by the success of the defining genre on the platform. Is it possible to be successful with a non-litRPG? Of course. But you need to define your success differently. If you want to write for money you need to write to the market's whims, not your own.

Also now that the marketing guide has been out for a long time and so many people have followed it, that guide is the bare minimum standard. We're at the point where new writers should be extrapolating their next steps and evolving past the basics laid out in that post because everyone is using them and it won't push you ahead of the competition anymore.

Next to no one follows the guide properly.

Because step 1 is to "figure out what sells," and the vast majority of new authors have their story/idea first and then they "follow" the guide. You're not following the guide if you skipped the first step. It's like baking a cake but instead of adding flour, you add an already baked piece of bread. You can stick that mixture into the oven, but the chances of it coming out anywhere near anything even remotely close to a cake are slim to none.

I'm still curious about the definition of Making it Big, or Making Money.

Are we talking  'quit your job and be an author full time', and how much a month do you need for that?

Or just making some pocket money through your hobby?

Or is the goal to soar up to the first page of Best Rated, or be at the top?

The Wrote: I'm still curious about the definition of Making it Big, or Making Money.

For me, it's making more than a thousand bucks through patreon. That'd mean you have a large audience before going to zon, and there will be big publishers offering you good deals. 

Also, I feel like people are exaggerating the effects of the guide. I came upon that only after doing my own research, and I was already aware of most of the content. Only the KU part was interesting for me, but I'd still learn those from somewhere else. I find it strange when others talk like the guide changed the game and competition became more intense because of it.

TheKingofKirby Wrote:

Wyatt_Wriots Wrote:

TheKingofKirby Wrote:

realTENSAi Wrote: Thanks for all this answers, appreciate it! I'm thinking about posting short stories, to improve my writing and also to see what the readers say. What do you all think about this idea?

Good luck with getting any kind of feedback from readers. Most are silent. Short stories don't do well here either. If feedback is what you're looking for, your best bet is to go to the critique forum and ask for review swaps.

Royal Road is NOT the place to write if you're looking to money. Yes, there are some that can do it but there's so many people here now looking for Patreon subs that the market is thin. It's like trying to spread the last drop of butter across an entire loaf of bread.

You have to write within very narrow genres. You have to do a lot of begging (begging for shoutouts, begging for patreon subscribers, begging for reviews). You need a lot of luck. And a lot of success on RR is competitive, meaning that someone getting exposure on the front page or making money comes at the cost of someone else not getting said exposure/money.

There are better places to try to earn money writing. Hell, you'd might even make a few bucks off your short stories if you tidy them up a bit and post them on kindle vella or kindle unlimited.

Besides, trying to get ahead in RR leads can lead to some bad habits for traditional writing. It's practically encourage to give up on stories if they don't hit the front page in a month. Abandoning projects is the sign of a novice writer, not to mention it hinders your ability to follow through on proper story structure. Not to mention that editing, planning and proper grammar are second to quantity and frequency of chapters, another bad habit for self-pub and trad pub.

KU is also very difficult to break into now, and suffers many of the same issues you pointed out in your thread. The truth is, writing is competitive, far more so than the past. Its difficult for a newcomer to break into the scene without, at least, having 5-10 books on their belt.

Hell, a famous FB group is known as 20 to 50K essentially saying you need to write 20 books before you'll make your first 50K. Which is insane.

I've seen a lot of authors point to serialized writing as "the new thing" now that KU is so overburdened. Obviously, we won't know if thats true until it happens, but with how much serialization is being pushed now, I can see it.

Of course it's going to be difficult. Making decent money doing almost anything is difficult and requires immense effort. What job exists where making 50k is easy? But making actual money from writing is infinitely easier on other sites than RR. Do you really think it's easier for an average Joe to make 50k on RR than it is to make it on KU or Amazon? Or even other paid book services?

Getting people to subscribe to a Patreon is a hard ask. Even harder when an entire site is all competing for the same shallow pond of people willing to dish out monthly subscriptions for a handful of stories.

All I'm saying that if you want to see any return on your hard work, pretty much any paid service will offer you a better chance than RR.

If your story gets 700 reads (as in 700 pages read), you can get 3 dollars. You can get absolutely nothing from RR having a hundred thousand views if people don't take the extra effort to subscribe to your patreon.

KU is probably the best for making money writing. (But still ridiculously hard)

What Royal Road is good for is building a base. If you get decently popular, even if you don't make much in Patreon, you can funnel that userbase into KU. Getting large amount of reviews on day 1 can propel your book to #1 on KU, ensuring it gets blasted out to millions of people.

Exposure is the absolute best thing to have as an early author. It easily trumps anything else.

Wyatt_Wriots Wrote: What Royal Road is good for is building a base. If you get decently popular, even if you don't make much in Patreon, you can funnel that userbase into KU. Getting large amount of reviews on day 1 can propel your book to #1 on KU, ensuring it gets blasted out to millions of people.

Exposure is the absolute best thing to have as an early author. It easily trumps anything else.

I'm not sure it trumps a good work ethic, and the willpower to keep churning huge wordcounts day in, day out.

Bresandor Wrote: Magical Gunslinger Girl never got on RS. Nor did Fox’s Tongue and Kirin’s Bone

Neither of them had a massive following on reddit, nor a prior stories to pull people from. They both got big when the small dedicated fanbase and lurkers reading all flocked to give them ratings (One posting a chapter that made lurkers and people want to rate, and the other asking for reviews directly after a book end)

So is it possible? Yes. 
Is it likely? Out of all of RR, only two managed to do that. Odds are not good here. 

IMO - write story, and if it doesn't hit RS in a month, drop and try again with a different premise. Trying to continue with a series that did not get onto RS is rolling hard against the odds.

Magical Girl Rising did get on Rising Stars. Very briefly, but it was in the top 5 for a day and the top 50 for over a week. I don't think that's where it got its views, though, but it was there

For my two cents, all Rising Stars is indicative of is rapid growth. If the story grows more slowly, then it won't get on rising stars. If you're really worried about this kind of stuff, you can always throw some money at an ad campaign, which raises visibility. Bit of a gamble, though

realTENSAi Wrote:

TheKingofKirby Wrote:

realTENSAi Wrote: Thanks for all this answers, appreciate it! I'm thinking about posting short stories, to improve my writing and also to see what the readers say. What do you all think about this idea?

Good luck with getting any kind of feedback from readers. Most are silent. Short stories don't do well here either. If feedback is what you're looking for, your best bet is to go to the critique forum and ask for review swaps.

Royal Road is NOT the place to write if you're looking to money. Yes, there are some that can do it but there's so many people here now looking for Patreon subs that the market is thin. It's like trying to spread the last drop of butter across an entire loaf of bread.

You have to write within very narrow genres. You have to do a lot of begging (begging for shoutouts, begging for patreon subscribers, begging for reviews). You need a lot of luck. And a lot of success on RR is competitive, meaning that someone getting exposure on the front page or making money comes at the cost of someone else not getting said exposure/money.

There are better places to try to earn money writing. Hell, you'd might even make a few bucks off your short stories if you tidy them up a bit and post them on kindle vella or kindle unlimited.

Besides, trying to get ahead in RR leads can lead to some bad habits for traditional writing. It's practically encourage to give up on stories if they don't hit the front page in a month. Abandoning projects is the sign of a novice writer, not to mention it hinders your ability to follow through on proper story structure. Not to mention that editing, planning and proper grammar are second to quantity and frequency of chapters, another bad habit for self-pub and trad pub.

Which other sites would you recommend?

I haven't used it very much, but Scribophile is a very good site for getting feedback - much better for short stories. Generally there are around 2-3 aspiring writers giving paragraph-to-paragraph feedback. It does require a bit of work, though

Sortis Wrote: and there will be big publishers offering you good deals.

LOL

If this happens, read the fine print really well, because I fucking gar-run-fucking-tee you there's a big spiked dildo hidden in there.

YOU won't get a good deal.

You'll be anally mastered by a CPA in a bow tie.

You'd be better off putting it on Amazon and crossing your fingers than trusting one of the big publishers.

Bresandor Wrote: IMO - write story, and if it doesn't hit RS in a month, drop and try again with a different premise. Trying to continue with a series that did not get onto RS is rolling hard against the odds.

Mmm, took me a little over 2 months to hit RS, and it's stayed there consistently since, so I think 1 month is too short, sometimes it just takes a bit for your audience to find you. 

If this is the story you want to tell, tell it. If there are other stories you want to tell, you can try to tell them too. Don't try to tell a story that you don't like because you think it will make you money. That's just having a job and is probably worse on your psyche than getting a minimum-wage fast food job. Just don't count on getting money until you actually have money. Writing is always a bit of a gamble at the start, you might as well gamble in a way that makes you happy instead of miserable.

Kennit Wrote: Next to no one follows the guide properly.

Because step 1 is to "figure out what sells," and the vast majority of new authors have their story/idea first and then they "follow" the guide. You're not following the guide if you skipped the first step. It's like baking a cake but instead of adding flour, you add an already baked piece of bread. You can stick that mixture into the oven, but the chances of it coming out anywhere near anything even remotely close to a cake are slim to none.

This is very true as well. Between that and the whole sunk cost thing--no one really wants to admit their One Great Idea is a flop after writing it for months or years or even longer, either because it's not marketable or it was poorly executed or that genre was popular 10 years ago or any of a hundred other factors. No one likes to be told they just don't have a valuable story. Those who aren't willing to adapt, who don't want to run their business so to speak, will continue flogging a dead story for years.

Personally, I'm writing an off genre story on purpose, kind of as a practice run, but I have 3 different litRPG concepts I'm toying with at varying degrees of marketability. I don't understand litRPGs well enough to write one right now, but the seed has been planted. Ideally what I'd like to do is get to a point where I'm generating enough revenue from my current project to start investing in a bigger product, as it were. I'm not generally a fan of putting all my eggs in one basket in either case but with something like writing it's very difficult to envision it as a commodity, especially given the time and labor investment and the low ROI.

Ralts Wrote: You'll be anally mastered by a CPA in a bow tie.

But are we going to listen to my story voiced by Travis Baldree during the session?

Lol, jokes aside, I rather go for self-pub, but the boost a big publisher gives you is something I don't want to miss as a no name author. I can still self-pub my new projects.

Sortis Wrote: I can still self-pub my new projects.

Not necessarily.

There are some contracts that include EVERYTHING you write can only be published through the big publisher. If the big publisher doesn't want it, well, you can't publish it.

I haven't written much on RR, but I have had stories hit on other sites before. People can't really give you advice I think, because I don't think anyone really knows. It just happens and then as a few others mentioned the pressure builds to keep up a few thousand words a day. It becomes a ten-hour-a-day job for not enough money. A few authors seem to be able to write money into existence with anything they write until you get to know them and then you realize they are burning the candle at both ends in order to keep up. A rich author isn't someone who has a life, they are someone who writes so much that they lose track of ten years.