Re: People who only 5 star review should be banned or not allowed to review

#21
Freckles Wrote: I think people who only one star should be banned as being Poopers

I do remember on eBay when it first started, they called people who only left one star - Poopers and would delete their accounts and ban them if they only left bunches of one stars and no other ratings. (Don't know how many one stars would cross the line there)

That is just talking about eBay though. :)

I made a song :)

Poopest Poopers that ever did Poop, Poopen Poopers !

https%3A%2F%2Fmedia1.tenor.co%2Fimages%2F066e8725a...d%3D21215895

Re: People who only 5 star review should be banned or not allowed to review

#24
Esbe Wrote: My review on the story has just been removed on the basis of being "discouraging" to the author. It gave 4 stars. If on scale on 1 to 5, 4 is discouraging, everyone giving 5 star is fully justified.
Was it mine? is that why you changed it? I got a notification saying you did, which is odd cuz I never voiced a complaint against it >..>

Re: People who only 5 star review should be banned or not allowed to review

#25
aWildAsian Wrote: Was it mine? is that why you changed it? I got a notification saying you did, which is odd cuz I never voiced a complaint against it >..>
No, I am not able to even re-post my review under the story in question.

Review under yours has been deleted with justification "not the advanced review" - so I was able to re post it as "simple" instead.

By the way, I noticed that there is a review under the story that is obviously more demotivating than any of mine ever were and it is still around.

Re: People who only 5 star review should be banned or not allowed to review

#26
Esbe Wrote:
aWildAsian Wrote: Was it mine? is that why you changed it? I got a notification saying you did, which is odd cuz I never voiced a complaint against it >..>
No, I am not able to even re-post my review under the story in question.

Review under yours has been deleted with justification "not the advanced review" - so I was able to re post it as "simple" instead.

By the way, I noticed that there is a review under the story that is obviously more demotivating than any of mine ever were and it is still around.
You mean the advance review thats like 2 stars lmao? Yea it's been there since chapter 2 lol, I disputed it at first cuz the account that did it was brand new and i assumed it was a troll. Mods never did anything about it though so idk. 

Re: People who only 5 star review should be banned or not allowed to review

#27
Esbe Wrote:
aWildAsian Wrote: Was it mine? is that why you changed it? I got a notification saying you did, which is odd cuz I never voiced a complaint against it >..>
No, I am not able to even re-post my review under the story in question.

Review under yours has been deleted with justification "not the advanced review" - so I was able to re post it as "simple" instead.

By the way, I noticed that there is a review under the story that is obviously more demotivating than any of mine ever were and it is still around.
Also I appreciate the review, I am in the midst of trying to convert the epilogues/transcripts at the beginning so they aren't so intrusive to the reader.

Re: People who only 5 star review should be banned or not allowed to review

#28
I don't think there's any way around the issue except perhaps with some kind of independent moderation system e.g. site admins sort books/authors into two tiers; 1-Hobbyist level, 2-Professional level...?

That said, I still think RR is miles ahead on the issue of search & discovery and highlighting quality. Even if there are issues, it still reflects the popularity of books and what users are interested in reading. Other sites like Wattpad have little to no way to filter by quality.

Re: People who only 5 star review should be banned or not allowed to review

#29
TEZofAllTrades Wrote: I don't think there's any way around the issue except perhaps with some kind of independent moderation system e.g. site admins sort books/authors into two tiers; 1-Hobbyist level, 2-Professional level...?

I think there would be a lot of problems doing this.

If the site admins are the ones sorting the books into tiers, how many authors on here who think they're the next George R. R. Martin are going to start angrily messaging them when their dungeon core reincarnation isekai LitRPG A Song of Ice and Fire is put into the Hobbyist level? And we already have so many threads of "Why is my story ranked so low when it's much better than Mother of Learning?" or "Why did the admins remove my review of XYZ Story just because I was really blunt with the author?". Wait until the threads of "My epic literature that is better than any fiction written in the 21st Century was ranked as Hobbyist instead of Professional!" start rolling in.

Authors ranking themselves would not be much better. Again, the aforementioned authors who think they're way better than they are would put their work into the Professional level when it doesn't belong. Does anyone remember that one guy who made multiple threads demanding his "biting political satire" be allowed on Royal Road, only for his fiction to be just a rant against "feminazi bitches" with some poop jokes thrown in? Yeah, wait until the Professional tier gets flooded with those. And then there will be people who do the opposite, personally ranking their stories as Hobbyist when it's good enough to actually be Professional in order to be at the top of the lists rather than get lost in the crowd. Better to be the best player in the Minor Leagues than to be just another player in the Major Leagues, right?

Re: People who only 5 star review should be banned or not allowed to review

#30
https%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2Ff0nziWe.png

On-topic though:
There's not much to be done while still keeping any sort of user rating system.
They could do the rotten tomato route of critics vs general, but as shown many times even that doesn't really reflect the overall quality of the product.
Likes and dislikes are too narrow, and you'd still have the zealous fan and troll problem.

Personally i think a purely statistical system would be most fair, taking into account things such as uptime, recurring views, wordcount, active favorite/bookmarked and whatever else that is less hands on.
Keep reviews but don't let them effect the statistical score.

Re: People who only 5 star review should be banned or not allowed to review

#31
xaviermcc Wrote: people who go around 5-star reviewing stuff should be banned
Banning seems like a poor solution... Reviewers really need to ask themselves what constitutes a 5-star. This is probably too optimistic here, but maybe try to educate members on how to give a fair review. Surely someone made a guide on how to give proper reviews for novels on the site? Link, anyone?

Re: People who only 5 star review should be banned or not allowed to review

#33
Pillage Wrote:
xaviermcc Wrote: people who go around 5-star reviewing stuff should be banned
Banning seems like a poor solution... Reviewers really need to ask themselves what constitutes a 5-star. This is probably too optimistic here, but maybe try to educate members on how to give a fair review. Surely someone made a guide on how to give proper reviews for novels on the site? Link, anyone?
All the below are useful and offer advice on how to write fair reviews. The top two are classics. The bottom two are newer. They account for more recent trends and issues in rating and reviewing as well as building ontop of the classic guides. 

Nimbus's review guide (a classic)
Reviews explained
Tea's detailed guide
Bev's critque guide (Useful on etiquette)

Re: People who only 5 star review should be banned or not allowed to review

#35
TealiciousTea Wrote: All the below are useful and offer advice on how to write fair reviews. The top two are classics. The bottom two are newer. They account for more recent trends and issues in rating and reviewing as well as building ontop of the classic guides. 

Nimbus's review guide (a classic)
Reviews explained
Tea's detailed guide
Bev's critque guide (Useful on etiquette)
TealiciousTea comes in clutch once again, thank you!

Re: People who only 5 star review should be banned or not allowed to review

#36
TealiciousTea Wrote: Too many 0.5 ratings or too many 5 star ratings. Ya'll are too invested in a flaw system that most understand is kept only because taking it away would do more damage.

Though if too many positive ratings is the issue, then perhaps the rating system isn't doing as badly as I thought. 

FancyDrakan

Better overly harsh than overly kind. It's easier for authors to improve from being told what they do wrong than from being told that people like their story, and it's easier to find good works as a reader when only a few rise to the top, rather than only a few falling to the bottom. 

Re: People who only 5 star review should be banned or not allowed to review

#37
Brigadon Wrote:
Turtles Wrote: Better overly harsh than overly kind. It's easier for authors to improve from being told what they do wrong than from being told that people like their story, and it's easier to find good works as a reader when only a few rise to the top, rather than only a few falling to the bottom.

You overestimate, dramatically, your own importance.
Arrogance like that is the biggest part of the problem.
Did you forget that RR is FREE?
People are not looking for great works here, they are looking for a few hours of decent entertainment.
discouraging mediocre writers HARMS that entertainment goal.
This isn't friggin Harvard or Dragoncon
Only the worst trash, the unreadable garbage, should be permitted to fall through the cracks.

I find its often easier to dissect critique than praise. i also rather be told not to waste my time rather then read a story that sucks midway through.

It being initially readable for free shouldn't say anything about quality or does that mean the moment they open a patreon account that its automatically raised to quality content status?
To state "People are not looking for great works here" reminds me of another quote: "You overestimate, dramatically, your own importance."
There's quite a few stories here that i'd rather read than harry potter, i've not read the Lotr books but if they are anything like the movies... yawn no thanks.
RR is my main source for reading, it's not because it's "free", i even have some patreon subscriptions. I like the layout of the site and the ease of reading from my pc.

Uplifting mediocre writers hurts the community just as much as fake praising them for the sake of keeping up appearances.
Not everyone is cut out to be a writer and that's fine, but don't pull the wool over their eyes by pretending its not, that is helping no one, which is where critique would help them more to become better.
If they state they are writing for the fun of it then i can overlook glaring issues, but i also won't put in much effort to help such a writer because of it.

Current system is going the way of "If everyone is special, then nobody is", might as well remove it and tell everyone they are 5 stars with a static image.

Re: People who only 5 star review should be banned or not allowed to review

#39
To turtle - Why not write a review that is honest and kind. Why be harsh at all? 

To Aapjuh - The only reason the current rating system is still in place is because getting rid of it would do even more harm than what keeping it is place does. 

The "current system" of rating high is a response to the rating system favouring highly rated stories. For better or worse, authors are looking out for one another. Readers looking out for stories they like. 

Also, why would giving everyone a five star rating be a bad thing? Writing is hard work and most on RR get nothing from it. Just by writing they deserve some praise, imo.

Only a tiny few (if vocal) authors looking to go set up paterons or go to KU. This is great. They tell fun stories. But judging how to review a hobby project based on the most well paid and highly rated on the site? Then giving less help then a professional... well it doesn't sit right with me. But, you do you.

RR is better from a diversity of views.

Re: People who only 5 star review should be banned or not allowed to review

#40
TealiciousTea Wrote: To turtle - Why not write a review that is honest and kind. Why be harsh at all? 

To Aapjuh - The only reason the current rating system is still in place is because getting rid of it would do even more harm than what keeping it is place does. 

The "current system" of rating high is a response to the rating system favouring highly rated stories. For better or worse, authors are looking out for one another. Readers looking out for stories they like. 

Also, why would giving everyone a five star rating be a bad thing? Writing is hard work and most on RR get nothing from it. Just by writing they deserve some praise, imo.

Only a tiny few (if vocal) authors looking to go set up paterons or go to KU. This is great. They tell fun stories. But judging how to review a hobby project based on the most well paid and highly rated on the site? Then giving less help then a professional... well it doesn't sit right with me. But, you do you.

RR is better from a diversity of views.

Replacing the user-based rating system with a purely statistical system wouldn't do much harm, unless you watch the top lists 24/7 you'd never notice, i recon it would burst a few bubbles among the top double digits and might even see some well read but less spotlighted stories climb in their place.

"My story is max rated and people absolutely love and praise my story no negative to be found, so whhyyy...!! why aren't i selling any copies in 'the real world'?!?!"
People are to hung up on praising any author regardless of content quality just to be nice and motivating authors. the first few chapters might get a lot of views sure, but you think an author is motivated after seeing the drop-off? They might drop the story and maybe even start a new one without knowing what went wrong because there is no critique, and the cycle continues and RR gets filled with garbage dropped stories.

Did you ever race(running) a kid and held back to be nice, did you then show them reality after the Xth time racing, did you see them cross their arms and pout, did they ever ask to race again? if not, can you not easily image this scene happening?
Being nice isn't always good, i'm not saying you should be mean but reality can hurt regardless.
The current ongoings are with the star system is trash for both sides (authors and readers).

Anyone can setup a patreon, its free after all, there's nothing stopping them from getting possible income besides choices outside their control, fake 5stars are not making people subscribe, they do that after reading themselves so the story itself is what matters here.

I'm not advocating for the removal of reviews, rather the star system and how it influences their visibility on the site.
The stars are no longer about your story, they are about how many buddies you can drum up to boost you to the top.

I'm actually surprised i haven't seen "For 5$ i rank you 5Stars and write you a nice review, For every 5$ extra i'll add 100 wordcount to the review, For 10$ I'll post on every chapter with praise"