https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rCOmkrwQdFc

Except one of the reasons he says to read terrible books is because reading good books might lead you into plagiarism or "too much like" that good book. OP is shooting specifically to copy parts of said books in a way that is the exact opposite sentiment.

He even specifies to read them because you see "why they're doing so poorly compared to you." Whereas OP is trying to read them to see why they're doing so much better and then emulating it to try to capture their own success. While hating it.

Ziggy Wrote: Except one of the reasons he says to read terrible books is because reading good books might lead you into plagiarism or "too much like" that good book. OP is shooting specifically to copy parts of said books in a way that is the exact opposite sentiment.

He even specifies to read them because you see "why they're doing so poorly compared to you." Whereas OP is trying to read them to see why they're doing so much better and then emulating it to try to capture their own success. While hating it.

You pretty much ignored half of what he said in that clip - he also says to examine what you don't like about it, why it offends you, etc. I.e. examine why they hate it, and then from there think about how they could do it better.

Also, you've missed the point of linking that clip - rather than copy a popular but (in their view) terrible story, just learn where it falls flat for them and make improvements in their own writing that way.

Also-also, I think you're misunderstanding what he means by terrible stories and "doing poorly compared to you" - he's not talking about success or popularity, he's talking about quality. That's why he notes that it's a euphoric feeling when a published author sucks.

Yeah, no, I got all of that. OP sees litrpg as shit. They're trying to copy what they view as shit to do well themselves to "crack the formula." Instead of doing as the video says about being inspired to do better, they're just trying to copy the formula (that they loathe) to get lucky. Hence why they're filled with dread and considering it torture, pretty much the exact opposite of inspiration that the video is espousing.

This post alone makes it pretty obvious. But if you don't see what I'm talking about, read OP's prior posts and stories and you'll be able to see it for yourself.

While they're reading what they consider terrible stories, they're doing it for the exact opposite reasons the video you linked recommends.

I have a question
Why? Like, the money isn't that good. It's nice-- but it's not great. Less than fifty authors are really making living wage here.
So if you don't love it
Why?

NoDragons Wrote: I have a question
Why? Like, the money isn't that good. It's nice-- but it's not great. Less than fifty authors are really making living wage here.
So if you don't love it
Why?

Because as toxic as this place can get, it's still a better place to get readers than hurling thousands of dollars into marketing for self-publishing only to get 2 sales a year. 

Ziggy Wrote: Yeah, no, I got all of that. OP sees litrpg as shit. They're trying to copy what they view as shit to do well themselves to "crack the formula." Instead of doing as the video says about being inspired to do better, they're just trying to copy the formula (that they loathe) to get lucky. Hence why they're filled with dread and considering it torture, pretty much the exact opposite of inspiration that the video is espousing.

This post alone makes it pretty obvious. But if you don't see what I'm talking about, read OP's prior posts and stories and you'll be able to see it for yourself.

While they're reading what they consider terrible stories, they're doing it for the exact opposite reasons the video you linked recommends.

Yeah, and I'm saying they shouldn't do that? You do understand that sometimes replies in a thread are advising an OP to *not* do something that they've said they're doing, or planning on doing? Or that they should change something about their approach to it? It's a wild idea,  I know.

Basically all your replies have been is going "But thats not agreeing with the OP!" and yeah, I know. That was the intent.

Topic: I'm a writer reading litrpg. It's terrible and torture.
Response: Youtube link about how writers should definitely read terrible stories. No extra context given outside the video.
Apparently the obvious takeaway I missed: You're telling OP to stop doing the thing.

Err alright. Well, glad we're all on the same page now, apparently.

Ziggy Wrote: Topic: I'm a writer reading litrpg. It's terrible and torture.
Response: Youtube link about how writers should definitely read terrible stories. No extra context given outside the video.
Apparently the obvious takeaway I missed: You're telling OP to stop doing the thing.

Err alright. Well, glad we're all on the same page now, apparently.

You're ignoring half the video again in that response part, I'm not sure what the issue with that is but it's a weird hangup to have. But anyways, it's okay to have misunderstood the initial just a link post but after that it was just sticking to the initial misunderstanding for the sake of arguing and going "no thats not in line with what op said!" - which is honestly a pretty bad way to approach a conversation. Instead when people give clarification for why they linked something and point out it seems like you misunderstood something, don't double down. if you still aren't sure how its relevant or helpful, ask for more clarification. Or even debate against the actual validity of the advice being given. Basically any other approach than doing your best to make it an argument.

Scribble Wrote: You're ignoring half the video again in that response part

Ziggy Wrote: Response: Youtube link about how writers should definitely read terrible stories. No extra context given outside the video.

No, I'm not. It really looks like I'm referring to the whole video here. Not sure why you think I'm ignoring half of it. The topic (and title) of the video is about reading terrible stories. It's a constant throughout the entire video. And the "No extra context" is referring to your post with 0 words besides the video link. You gave no context in that response whether you were agreeing, disagreeing, or something in between. And if you've been on the internet at all, I'm sure you're familiar with people linking something to support their stance, only for it to detract from it instead.

Just to make extra sure, I just rewatched the video again. Twice. Yeah, no, totally get it. No changes in my understanding or shocking revelations.

I have no idea why you think I'm ignoring it or what action I have to take here to demonstrate otherwise. I didn't disagree with what you said about it, I literally said, "I got all of that" in acknowledgement and moved on. I'm not sure how acknowledging and agreeing is also ignoring it. The only part I misconstrued was your reason for sharing it.

What would you consider not ignoring it? Do I need to print out a transcript and burn it? Eat it? I don't really like the taste of paper and ink. I'm definitely not wiping with it, that would be extra unpleasant.

Ziggy Wrote:

Scribble Wrote: You're ignoring half the video again in that response part

Ziggy Wrote: Response: Youtube link about how writers should definitely read terrible stories. No extra context given outside the video.

No, I'm not. It really looks like I'm referring to the whole video here. Not sure why you think I'm ignoring half of it. The topic (and title) of the video is about reading terrible stories. It's a constant throughout the entire video. And the "No extra context" is referring to your post with 0 words besides the video link. You gave no context in that response whether you were agreeing, disagreeing, or something in between. And if you've been on the internet at all, I'm sure you're familiar with people linking something to support their stance, only for it to detract from it instead.

Just to make extra sure, I just rewatched the video again. Twice. Yeah, no, totally get it. No changes in my understanding or shocking revelations.

I have no idea why you think I'm ignoring it or what action I have to take here to demonstrate otherwise. I didn't disagree with what you said about it, I literally said, "I got all of that" in acknowledgement and moved on. I'm not sure how acknowledging and agreeing is also ignoring it. The only part I misconstrued was your reason for sharing it.

What would you consider not ignoring it? Do I need to print out a transcript and burn it? Eat it? I don't really like the taste of paper and ink. I'm definitely not wiping with it, that would be extra unpleasant.

In that video he explains WHY you should read terrible stories - to figure out why it offends you and why you dislike it so that you can do better. I've stated this before already, and I get that you've said you understand but saying that doesn't mean much when you turn around and continue on with the same mannerisms and arguments. It just comes across like you don't like the idea of having misunderstood something, as if it's a dire accusation. You also seem obsessed with reducing the video down to just "Hey you should read terrible stories!". To be completely blunt with you, I think you've just chosen a very weird hill to die on and are dragging out an at this point off-topic argument for its own sake. Especially when you keep trying to twist and spin stuff to suit whatever weird angle you're trying to push. I'm not particularly interested in continuing a conversation with someone like that, so I likely won't be - but I will reiterate once more that doubling down isn't the way to go about it, and also that you went into this little side conversation with an "Uhm achtually" mindset and refuse to let go of it. It's a very bad way to be, and sincerely something to work on not doing in the future. Have a nice day, though!

Masochistic tendencies: The act of consistent and repeated action of putting one self in harmful situations for pleasure.

Scribble Wrote: In that video he explains WHY you should read terrible stories - to figure out why it offends you and why you dislike it so that you can do better. I've stated this before already, and I get that you've said you understand but saying that doesn't mean much when you turn around and continue on with the same mannerisms and arguments. It just comes across like you don't like the idea of having misunderstood something, as if it's a dire accusation.

Hokay so. It's a minute and a half long video. He says the same thing you said, point blank, no subtlety involved. I watched it thrice. You have told me this same thing, in very blunt terms that anyone can understand, several times now. Then you insist I still don't get it and I'm also now simultaneously ignoring it. Instead of assuming there's a miscommunication somewhere, you're assuming I can't have possibly grasped this super simple concept you're telling me. Again. Still.

Yes, that's ridiculous and obnoxious as hell, obviously lmao. Is this what "mansplaining" is like? Being told simple concepts over and over while being treated like you still don't get it anyways? It's infuriating. God I'm glad I'm a guy.

The sole "angle" I'm trying to push here is refusing to tolerate your insistence that I'm doing things that I'm not. Namely that I'm ignoring the video when I'm not, and that I don't understand it when I do. Nobody likes that. My reaction and motivation in my unedited responses is extremely obvious and transparent with that in mind. Nothing weird about it, just normal human frustration.

HereBeTreasure Wrote: Forcing myself to read Path of the Warrior and I have to say that it's been so long since I've read a royalroad litrpg, this is actually torture. I think I actively hate the litrpg genre. But I'm going to force myself to read it anyway. 

Disclaimer: path of the warrior is highly rated and well received by readers here and that's why I chose to read this one. I'm not commenting on the quality of the story at all.

I dislike LitRPG too, but what is the point of making this thread? I could see if it was a hate-rant against a genre, but why make a thread to point out that you're reading a specific story and that you hate it without any reasons why? That seems very disrespectful to the author.

I can understand what others (but not the OP) have said about reading stories you don't like in order to learn from what they did wrong. I've sampled a few LitRPGs so I know not to do any of that in my WIP (not my currently published story, and definitely not a LitRPG as you probably guessed), but I wouldn't make a thread specifically to denigrate a specific story/author without any context or reasoning. Again, it just seems disrespectful.

If you don't like the story, you're better off leaving a negative review detailing your reasonings. Not that negative reviews are fun for the author, but it seems more constructive and you can better develop your own reasonings for why the story is bad, thus better preparing your own stories to avoid the same mistakes.

Always been that way haha, I just voice it more often now because I don't fear readers anymore. 

I'm reading Soul of the Warrior to learn how to entertain, rather than learn how to write. Currently on chapter 2, we'll see how it goes

TheKingofKirby Wrote: 2000 readers isn't enough for you?

I like to see numbers go up fam, that's the premise of this entire site 

NoDragons Wrote: I have a question
Why? Like, the money isn't that good. It's nice-- but it's not great. Less than fifty authors are really making living wage here.
So if you don't love it
Why?

Didn't ever get paid to play league of legends either, I guess it's pretty much the same vein of thought. Actually I like litrpg, just not this kind of litrpg aka written for an english speaking audience. It looks the same, but smells totally different. Just like how JP novels typically have a pathetic wimpy MC, EN novels have their own strange twist that is hard to explain but decidedly different in a way that makes it less palatable for me personally. There are a lot of FeMCs here written by men for example. It's hard to explain. 

Ziggy Wrote: Yeah, no, I got all of that. OP sees litrpg as shit. They're trying to copy what they view as shit to do well themselves to "crack the formula." Instead of doing as the video says about being inspired to do better, they're just trying to copy the formula (that they loathe) to get lucky. Hence why they're filled with dread and considering it torture, pretty much the exact opposite of inspiration that the video is espousing.

Royalroad litrpg is just different from what I personally like because it's written in English, and thus there are cultural norms that come from the 'english-sphere' that bleed into the stories and make it hard to read for me. Like for example you talked about mansplaining, that's such a western concept and quite meta. Same way Japanese cultural norms bleed right into the JP light novels and there are so many wimpy non-proactive MCs that it makes reading those stories unbearable. 

KR light novels occupy this strange niche in that they have both strong MCs and also east asian cultural norms, so you will see traditional litrpg stories that focus primarily on themes such as deference/subservience to authority figures, hiding strength, gaining respect and deference from elders and peers (Solo Leveling is steeped in east asian cultural norms, the whole necromancy thing is a lot about respect and deference), gaining wealth which is also synonymous with respect and good family in asian countries, as well as traditional dragon ball z-esque training and progression. RPG elements are present but not really the main focus. 

Meanwhile EN light novels ala royalroad go absolutely batshit ham into the rpg game mechanics. RPG mechanics become the main focus. And I personally don't like that. So when I say I hate royalroad litrpg, that's what I mean. I just don't like the game mechanics fixation. Game mechanics should be a cool side note, not the whole focus.