Re: Thoughts on LITRPG?

#21
I find it cool that an entire genre was able to pop up out of nowhere like it did. However, sadly, I simply cannot get into it. I've tried. 

The second I see one of those pop up prompts, I quit reading. There are quite a few stories on here that have a great idea and talent behind them, but they lose me right there. 

Personally, I want to be submerged in the story and it's world. Being constantly reminded that its a game, or whatever, and even the characters are not in their own reality blows it.

Man, I'm only 33 and I sound like a grump. Don't  worry about me though. You litrpg folks have more than enough support without me. Best of luck.

Cody

Re: Thoughts on LITRPG?

#24
I like the genre, because it's one of the most potential-filled when it comes to worldbuilding. However, some of the Lit-rpg stories can be exhausting to read when it comes to reading the tables, the system, and how it affects the story's pacing. bBut as I mentioned before, if it's done well, it can be one immersive expiriences in any writing genre, along with epic fantasy and Sci-fi. 

Re: Thoughts on LITRPG?

#26
I adore dungeon core and reincarnation-into-a-fantasy-world types of litRPG, as long as they don't fall afoul of one of those common flaws such as the mc having no social interaction, the mc being an OP Marty Stu who doesn't get challenged or have to struggle and creative problem solve, or the story being a harem story.  (That last may be more my personal taste than an objective writing flaw.)  I do like training montages and stat grinding and game-ified crafting; some people probably think that should be a guilty pleasure, but I never actually feel bad about my reading preferences.

As far as VRMMO stories go, sometimes they are good.  Other times the game is a real MMO with the serial numbers files off, or the game's design doesn't make any sense, or the way the players alternate between the games and reality isn't functional.  I've played a lot of RPGs over my ~35 years as a gamer, so if a litRPG has a standard RPG story it's probably not going to grab me.

Re: Thoughts on LITRPG?

#28
Good litrpg can be great. But bad litrpg is extra terrible. 

Whether the genre is attracting authors that see it as an easy payday or if anyone thinks they can write it even if they have no experience? It leads to some god awful results. To where I'll check out 10 litrpgs and immediately hit the "not interested" button for 9 of them, with the last one being mediocre instead of awful. 

And this is solely using the "rising stars" list with a filter so this is the cream of the crop, which is not a great sign.

Re: Thoughts on LITRPG?

#29

Ziggy Wrote: Good litrpg can be great. But bad litrpg is extra terrible. 

Whether the genre is attracting authors that see it as an easy payday or if anyone thinks they can write it even if they have no experience? It leads to some god awful results. To where I'll check out 10 litrpgs and immediately hit the "not interested" button for 9 of them, with the last one being mediocre instead of awful. 

And this is solely using the "rising stars" list with a filter so this is the cream of the crop, which is not a great sign.


Yes, I think I need to read good ones to start with.
  PeoReading

Re: Thoughts on LITRPG?

#32

Quentin Wrote: I just don't understand the whole concept.
The base concept is just "What if life worked like a game?" Or the similar idea "What if I could move into a game instead of being stuck in my real life?"


Not sure if you are a gamer at all, but some of the conventions by which games represent life are quite different from reality: number-based health and fast, complete healing, the lack of stat decay (if you lift weights for a year, you keep those gains forever), inventories hugely impact hunting, gathering, and trade, and even the social hierarchy would be different because the average 50 year old would be significantly stronger than the average 25 year old, if aging even existed.  Saving and loading can also simulate time travel or "regression" (a popular keyword in Korean web fiction! Both litRPG and otherwise).  So basically litRPG presents a particular type of world for characters to experience living in, which is comparable to fantasy, sci-fi, horror, and historical genres presenting various types of worlds.

Re: Thoughts on LITRPG?

#33
Something that I can’t stand when reading are unquantifiable abilities. What I mean by that is in essence how strong someone is, and what their limits are. So many times, I have read situations where climax is at its peak, the stakes have never been higher, where everything seems unwinnable, and the main character just pulls a solution out of their behind. Be it through power of friendship, hidden ability, random power up, just pure plot armor or some sort of deus ex machina, to me it just cheapens the whole experience. LitRPGs should in theory limit those situations. They give limits that you can always see and know to what the characters can do. LitRPGs are like a cube of possibilities in my mind, it can be as big or small as the author makes it, free or limited as they wish, but the moment that they start to reach outside of it, it’s clear as day and at that time I just stop reading those books. If you know that a character can fight for only 5 minutes before running out of resources, it’s very hard to explain how they are still fighting as the characters enter the fifth hour of their fight.

A lot of fantasy books that I have read try to give readers vague explanations of how strong their characters are. They enter a fight, win and at the end of it they are tired and running out of breath. But the problem is that the author needs to make every consequent fight bigger and more exciting, and by the time you reach the end of the book all of those limitations from the beginning are forgotten.

Now, can LitRPGs fall into those pits of plot breaking events? Of course, they can, but LitRPG is a very large genre of books. There are a few excellent ones and a horde of awful ones. It is unfair to judge the whole genre by few examples. There are some with a lot of blue boxes and status messages and they have their fans, there are some that are focused on underlying math behind the system and they have theirs. But there are also some that focus on characters, world and the story where the LitRPG system is mostly in the background giving structure and boundaries to what those characters can do or simply the means to grow stronger as time passes. Some are more like games, some more like real life.

Something else that you should keep in mind is that if the book has a successful patreon that usually means that they are unending, patreon milking books. That doesn’t mean that they are bad or unenjoyable but they usually have slow pacing, a lot of chapters that can be straight up removed and of course, will never end.

If you start reading LitRPGs, you might discover the type that you enjoy and also easily recognize after some time those that you don’t, so you don’t waste your time.

Re: Thoughts on LITRPG?

#34
Sanderson's first law of writing magic.
  1. Quote:The author's ability to resolve conflicts in a satisfying way with magic is directly proportional to how the reader understands said magic.
A lot of writers, litrpg or not, fail to follow this properly. And it is indeed very unsatisfying. The magic or abilities need to be quantified and understood in at least some measure. Even better if the author in question manages to foreshadow all the puzzle pieces for a character to use their power in a new and powerful way, and the reader still doesn't realize it until it happens. Then it all just clicks.

Re: Thoughts on LITRPG?

#35
I've been seeing a lot of hate for the litrpg genre, but I think a lot of it is unjustified.

It's true there are lots of bad litrpgs out there. Some are horribly written with poor plots, character progression, unlikeable characters, and unrealistic situations.

But you know what other genres suffer from this sort of thing? All of them. The only reason it's so prominent in litrpgs is because it's a fresh popular genre with a young audience which is also inspiring young/inexperienced writers to try their hands at it. I guarantee, there are a lot of trash romances and regular trash scifi and fantasy fictions out there with the same exact problems. The only difference is that one genre uses numbers and tables and the others don't. Poor pacing and info dumps (which tables actually kinda are) can happen anywhere in any fiction.

I think a lot of authors get frustrated seeing low-quality litrpgs succeed while their own non-litrpg work flounders, but I don't think that's a failing on the litrpg genre. That's just how big the audience for litrpg content is right now. It's a trend, and trends change over time. Don't hate the player (litrpgs), hate the game (trends).

Some people just aren't into litrpgs though, and that's fair, I just feel like I've seen a huge disparity in like vs dislike when it comes to readers vs authors on the topic of litrpgs, and authors by far seem to be increasingly on the dislike side of it.

DrakanPopcorn

On a lighter, less confrontational note, I look at the litrpg genre the same way I do fanfiction. It's a great way of introducing more young or inexperienced writers to writing. The best way to enjoy writing is to write something you enjoy, and a lot of people enjoy rpg's, mmorpg's, video games, etc. I tend to skip over all the number bits when reading, but the really good litrpgs are fun to read.



Re: Thoughts on LITRPG?

#37
I don't mind Litrpg but my mind can not handle stats, whether as a reader or writer. It doesn't feel right to me, nor does it feel that a character (or a person) could be quantified or easily explained away as "They have x amount of strength so they can do this but not this." Then the story tends to break it's own rules or not follow up how a single stat improvement or loss would be translated as the character's growth.
Then comes the stat bloat and struggling to understand how the big numbers go brrr crowd operate.
So, I suppose I'm not the biggest fan of system/blue box focused only stories.

However, Gamelit has a lot of potential. Dungeons and the implications of that and monsters. Good and Evil/Order and Chaos possibly being real things. Crafting and creating new tools, potions, weapons and more from drops/harvest items. Quests, missions, and tasks. Themes on humanity, morality, immortality, desires, goals, explorations and so on.

In short, using the world, character and plot development as a main focus and having the more game mechanics/elements in the background.

I tend to have my original story/series I'm writing a backlog for before releasing be statless and take more focus on exploration, monsters, classes (archtypes and skills/abilities/traits discovered by training, experience, want and need, intervention, quest/mission/loot rewards etc). So things overall need to be considered or at more risk when it comes to fighting others since one never knows how they might fight based on appearance or initial/main class(es).

There is a lot of potential in both Gamelit and Litrpg. It all comes down to execution however

Re: Thoughts on LITRPG?

#38
LitRPG's reputation started out good but is beginning to slide down a hill, because originally it was cool and novel to have quests, rewards, classes, titles, grinding, spacial inventories, and such in stories.

Those things are still cool. 

But there is a strange phenomenon where this genre has attracted more and more particular of a readerbase that cares too much about numbers and choices... and not necessarily about accuracy, but about conformity of those numbers and choices to their own pre-set system. It's kind of morbidly fascinating. 

These readers in turn force authors to conform to their biases, or get evicted (see Warlocke's Gate's health percentage system for a good example of this), to the point that the genre itself has warped into conformity soup. 

For example, I borrowed the Primal Hunter story's stat page (which is also borrowed from other stories) not because I can't invent another one myself, but simply because I'm scared of the readers being offended by something that isn't their old brand of apple sauce AKA any stat screen that deviates from what is figuratively and literally Dungeons and Dragons 5th Edition. I'm currently borrowing cultivation not because I like cultivation, but because it's a preapproved brand of apple sauce that readers enjoy. 

In the context of another video game like League of Legends, these are the types of players that overly fixate on certain details, often times erroneously, while totally missing the big picture. For reference, I'm a diamond 1 player in League (top 0.6%) and six times masters player in Starcraft (top 1%), and yet I gloss over many details in the game. I don't know things. Yet I have friends who are low rank, and the exact opposite. Morbid fixation on certain things, while missing the big picture and being poor players as a result of it. 

In the context of a novel, there is no MMR system to prove your readers are wrong per se. Readers don't lose a game for having a wrong opinion. Actually, it's the exact opposite. Readers are always right because they control the ratings of a story. Reader opinion itself forms the MMR system for a novel's ratings. And this is fine when the readers are reasonable, but when they are not... (and LitRPG heavily attracts a very particular set of readers) thus begins this horribly slurry of a system where authors need to consistently conform their content to ever increasingly morbid fixations from readers that make no sense. 

And that's why the frontpage of Royalroad is litrpg/cultivation soup with borrowed components, and people are getting angry at the LitRPG category. Not because people don't want to be creative, but because authors are being forced at gunpoint by a particular group of readers to do so and now both normal authors and normal readers are getting angry about it. 

Re: Thoughts on LITRPG?

#39
HereBeTreasure Wrote: LitRPG's reputation started out good but is beginning to slide down a hill, because originally it was cool and novel to have quests, rewards, classes, titles, grinding, spacial inventories, and such in stories.

Those things are still cool. 

But there is a strange phenomenon where this genre has attracted more and more particular of a readerbase that cares too much about numbers and choices... and not necessarily about accuracy, but about conformity of those numbers and choices to their own pre-set system. It's kind of morbidly fascinating. 

These readers in turn force authors to conform to their biases, or get evicted (see Warlocke's Gate's health percentage system for a good example of this), to the point that the genre itself has warped into conformity soup. 

For example, I borrowed the Primal Hunter story's stat page (which is also borrowed from other stories) not because I can't invent another one myself, but simply because I'm scared of the readers being offended by something that isn't their old brand of apple sauce AKA any stat screen that deviates from what is figuratively and literally Dungeons and Dragons 5th Edition. I'm currently borrowing cultivation not because I like cultivation, but because it's a preapproved brand of apple sauce that readers enjoy. 

In the context of another video game like League of Legends, these are the types of players that overly fixate on certain details, often times erroneously, while totally missing the big picture. For reference, I'm a diamond 1 player in League (top 0.6%) and six times masters player in Starcraft (top 1%), and yet I gloss over many details in the game. I don't know things. Yet I have friends who are low rank, and the exact opposite. Morbid fixation on certain things, while missing the big picture and being poor players as a result of it. 

In the context of a novel, there is no MMR system to prove your readers are wrong per se. Readers don't lose a game for having a wrong opinion. Actually, it's the exact opposite. Readers are always right because they control the ratings of a story. Reader opinion itself forms the MMR system for a novel's ratings. And this is fine when the readers are reasonable, but when they are not... (and LitRPG heavily attracts a very particular set of readers) thus begins this horribly slurry of a system where authors need to consistently conform their content to ever increasingly morbid fixations from readers that make no sense. 

And that's why the frontpage of Royalroad is litrpg/cultivation soup with borrowed components, and people are getting angry at the LitRPG category. Not because people don't want to be creative, but because authors are being forced at gunpoint by a particular group of readers to do so and now both normal authors and normal readers are getting angry about it.
These readers in turn force authors to conform to their biases, or get evicted (see Warlocke's Gate's health percentage system for a good example of this), to the point that the genre itself has warped into conformity soup. 

Could I get a brief summary/explanation of this one?

Re: Thoughts on LITRPG?

#40
I have a friend, went to a very prestigious university, perfect GPA in a math type major. This might seem like random information until you read below and truly understand how his dopamine payoff system is structured. 

We talk about steam games all the time, he tells me that he "doesn't like story" in his games. He doesn't watch TV, he doesn't read books, but he likes playing chess and games like Path of Exile where it's about optimizing loot. When he plays Apex Legends, he doesn't care about shooting, or positioning, or pathing, he only cares about picking up purple and gold attachments and weapons and gets off to that. 

It's really fucking weird, to be completely honest. But it's very obvious that his brain is wired differently from mine. What gives him serotonin doesn't give me serotonin and vice versa. I like RTS and MOBA because I enjoy spacial control and resource management, he despises the concept of space and enjoys character build trees only. 

Now that you've read that, can you see why he's so good at securing a perfect GPA in a math related major? It's about his serotonin payoff structure giving him a high for certain kinds of achievements but not others. 

Writing on royalroad feels like appealing to a legion of people with my friend's type of personality. Not exactly the same, but in the same genre of gets-off-to-stuff-that's-inconceivable-for-me. 

last edit: At least royalroad readers enjoy stories, what kind of human being doesn't enjoy stories? I can only say this anonymously online but when my friend said that to me to it was just mind blowing, and not in a good way.