Re: Need to vent?

#21
Sake Wrote:
Vivian Wrote:
Sake Wrote:
Vivian Wrote: We really need to stop looking at views per chapter. It's one of the single worst things for our mental health, and we're writing trauma recovery which is hard enough as it is. Reader numbers don't matter! What matters is getting the best quality work out that we can manage.

I admit, I read the first chapter of your novel and then skipped to chapter 13.
Was it because of the darker topics? Or something else?

No, because while I was also abused in the past(including bullying), I can relate to neither Kendall nor Robbie. Their thought process is very foreign to me. 

The dark topic is what drew me in, but if I don't like the characters, I can't enjoy the entire work. I've read chapters 12 and 7 now too. I know that reading out of order is not a good way to enjoy any fiction, but I was curious about what is literally going to happen.
Sometimes works have interesting/clever plots despite having unrelatable or unlikable characters.

Spoiler :
However, the majority of the novel seems to explore inner monologues rather than literal events. Such a focus on characters really makes or breaks the book for people who either like them(and therefore will continue reading it) or dislike them(and therefore will drop it). The major motive in inner monologues seems to be guilt, which is once again a foreign thing to me.

In my abusive past, there were oppressors and there were oppressed. People cursed their powerlessness, or flaunted their power, depending on whether they were on the bottom or the top. Guilt wasn't a thing. Shame, however, was. 

"I landed you in hospital" is something a bully might have said to the victim with an arrogant smirk on his face because being landed in the hospital was seen as shameful. being raped was seen as shameful. Losing a fight was seen as shameful. So victims didn't ask for help and prayed that one-day tables will turn and their time to become an abuser will come. These victims often became cops and other such later in life. 

But I'm going off tanget. My point is that the situation where bully starts questioning herself and feeling bad about what she's done is extremely exotic and unrelatbable.

edit: also bullying, in my experience, is usually done by groups and targeting isolated individuals. A situation where there is only one bully seems very weird to me and kinda forces me to suspend disbelief.


Thank you! We very much appreciate the feed back. You are correct that this is somewhat outside the situation commonly set between bully and victim. However, the bully is still human. They have emotions, and guilt is among them. Even if it's hard for victims of bullying to see that.

Re: Need to vent?

#22

Vivian Wrote:
Sake Wrote:
Vivian Wrote:
Sake Wrote:
Vivian Wrote: We really need to stop looking at views per chapter. It's one of the single worst things for our mental health, and we're writing trauma recovery which is hard enough as it is. Reader numbers don't matter! What matters is getting the best quality work out that we can manage.

I admit, I read the first chapter of your novel and then skipped to chapter 13.
Was it because of the darker topics? Or something else?

No, because while I was also abused in the past(including bullying), I can relate to neither Kendall nor Robbie. Their thought process is very foreign to me. 

The dark topic is what drew me in, but if I don't like the characters, I can't enjoy the entire work. I've read chapters 12 and 7 now too. I know that reading out of order is not a good way to enjoy any fiction, but I was curious about what is literally going to happen.
Sometimes works have interesting/clever plots despite having unrelatable or unlikable characters.

Spoiler :
However, the majority of the novel seems to explore inner monologues rather than literal events. Such a focus on characters really makes or breaks the book for people who either like them(and therefore will continue reading it) or dislike them(and therefore will drop it). The major motive in inner monologues seems to be guilt, which is once again a foreign thing to me.

In my abusive past, there were oppressors and there were oppressed. People cursed their powerlessness, or flaunted their power, depending on whether they were on the bottom or the top. Guilt wasn't a thing. Shame, however, was. 

"I landed you in hospital" is something a bully might have said to the victim with an arrogant smirk on his face because being landed in the hospital was seen as shameful. being raped was seen as shameful. Losing a fight was seen as shameful. So victims didn't ask for help and prayed that one-day tables will turn and their time to become an abuser will come. These victims often became cops and other such later in life. 

But I'm going off tanget. My point is that the situation where bully starts questioning herself and feeling bad about what she's done is extremely exotic and unrelatbable.

edit: also bullying, in my experience, is usually done by groups and targeting isolated individuals. A situation where there is only one bully seems very weird to me and kinda forces me to suspend disbelief.

Thank you! We very much appreciate the feed back. You are correct that this is somewhat outside the situation commonly set between bully and victim. However, the bully is still human. They have emotions, and guilt is among them. Even if it's hard for victims of bullying to see that.

oh, and that reminds me. And pardon me if I'm wrong about that, maybe the chapters I read so far gave me wrong impression but...

it seems that Kendall has a...normal family? And normal life at home?

This too, sounds unbelievable to me. All aggressive people I knew/know, and of course, it's just anecdotal evidence, had a very poor home situation. 
In other words, the reason why they were violent is that violence was happening every day at home, it was normalized and they didn't think much of that. Other things like stealing, drugs, sexual assault etc. are normalized too, and the only evil is getting caught. 

Soo, I was kinda taken aback by how normal Kendall's life is. I mean

Spoiler :
I guess there was some foreshadowing in how she seems to be afraid of her mother and calls her Ma'am that something bad might be happening behind the curtains or in her past, I'd have to read everything to know for sure.

Re: Need to vent?

#23

Sake Wrote:
Vivian Wrote:
Sake Wrote:
Vivian Wrote:
Sake Wrote:
Vivian Wrote: We really need to stop looking at views per chapter. It's one of the single worst things for our mental health, and we're writing trauma recovery which is hard enough as it is. Reader numbers don't matter! What matters is getting the best quality work out that we can manage.

I admit, I read the first chapter of your novel and then skipped to chapter 13.
Was it because of the darker topics? Or something else?

No, because while I was also abused in the past(including bullying), I can relate to neither Kendall nor Robbie. Their thought process is very foreign to me. 

The dark topic is what drew me in, but if I don't like the characters, I can't enjoy the entire work. I've read chapters 12 and 7 now too. I know that reading out of order is not a good way to enjoy any fiction, but I was curious about what is literally going to happen.
Sometimes works have interesting/clever plots despite having unrelatable or unlikable characters.

Spoiler :
However, the majority of the novel seems to explore inner monologues rather than literal events. Such a focus on characters really makes or breaks the book for people who either like them(and therefore will continue reading it) or dislike them(and therefore will drop it). The major motive in inner monologues seems to be guilt, which is once again a foreign thing to me.

In my abusive past, there were oppressors and there were oppressed. People cursed their powerlessness, or flaunted their power, depending on whether they were on the bottom or the top. Guilt wasn't a thing. Shame, however, was. 

"I landed you in hospital" is something a bully might have said to the victim with an arrogant smirk on his face because being landed in the hospital was seen as shameful. being raped was seen as shameful. Losing a fight was seen as shameful. So victims didn't ask for help and prayed that one-day tables will turn and their time to become an abuser will come. These victims often became cops and other such later in life. 

But I'm going off tanget. My point is that the situation where bully starts questioning herself and feeling bad about what she's done is extremely exotic and unrelatbable.

edit: also bullying, in my experience, is usually done by groups and targeting isolated individuals. A situation where there is only one bully seems very weird to me and kinda forces me to suspend disbelief.

Thank you! We very much appreciate the feed back. You are correct that this is somewhat outside the situation commonly set between bully and victim. However, the bully is still human. They have emotions, and guilt is among them. Even if it's hard for victims of bullying to see that.

oh, and that reminds me. And pardon me if I'm wrong about that, maybe the chapters I read so far gave me wrong impression but...

it seems that Kendall has a...normal family? And normal life at home?

This too, sounds unbelievable to me. All aggressive people I knew/know, and of course, it's just anecdotal evidence, had a very poor home situation. 
In other words, the reason why they were violent is that violence was happening every day at home, it was normalized and they didn't think much of that. Other things like stealing, drugs, sexual assault etc. are normalized too, and the only evil is getting caught. 

Soo, I was kinda taken aback by how normal Kendall's life is. I mean

Spoiler :
I guess there was some foreshadowing in how she seems to be afraid of her mother and calls her Ma'am that something bad might be happening behind the curtains or in her past, I'd have to read everything to know for sure.
Ah, yeah. Kendall most certainly does not have a normal life. You'd had missed it if you skipped around like that. Other than that, all we can really say to that is to read the blurb.

EDIT: It's also important to note that it's not all going to be the same situation. We do understand that this is what you went through when it comes to bullying, and we're sorry to hear it, but it's going to be a different situation for everyone who experiences it. Both bully and victim.

And thank you once more for the comments!

To make sure this thread doesn't go totally off track. We really hate how Google Docs lags badly sometimes. It completely throws us off our rhythm when typing!

Re: Need to vent?

#26
I wanna vent about nothing on Royal Roads, but writing in general. Publishing is a goddamn nightmare these days. Seriously, it is an awful, soul sucking experience. How I long to just be able to write and ignore everything else and make enough money to support myself on just writing. But that isn't how our world works, is it?

Re: Need to vent?

#28

Zeepolian Wrote:
Wyatt_Wriots Wrote: I wanna vent about nothing on Royal Roads, but writing in general. Publishing is a goddamn nightmare these days. Seriously, it is an awful, soul sucking experience. How I long to just be able to write and ignore everything else and make enough money to support myself on just writing. But that isn't how our world works, is it?
Preach it!  Drakanroar


I've done my time jumping through publisher hoops, it sucks.


That's why I think I'm done with it. I think it best to self-pub and win/fail on my own terms--rather than someone else's.

Re: Need to vent?

#29
I have fifty different seeds of ideas and know that one story isn't going to hold them all. I have two epics rattling around in my head but want to write a trashy LitRPG fantasy, but am getting pulled in so many different directions with it it would be a mess if I wrote it without narrowing it down. I have great middles and endings for one story, a great beginning for another, and an amazing world for both, but have no idea how to get from start to finish without butchering the whole thing along the way. I have been working on two stories on and off for a decade and have erased more words than I wrote. I have notepads and sketch pads for ideas for trash stories but no reason to write them and no idea how to end them but don't want them to consume a thousand chapters of boring treadmill like i see some of my favorites becoming. 

I have the will to be a writer and the need but not the discipline and its driving me up the wall around the bend and back down again into the dirt. 

Re: Need to vent?

#34

Little Wrote: I have a tendency to compare myself to others. I get distracted easily. When I realize some of my story's plot points are eerily similar to the plot points from another story that I enjoyed a lot, I feel like I'm plagiarizing. Vent complete (?)

Have you considered just messaging the authors and asking them if you can use elements of their story? I fell in love with a particular little gem used in the opening chapters of a story and messaged the author to ask if I could steal a version of it and make it my own. They were very kind and gave their permission. I think if my story ever gets out there and someone came to me and asked if they could use a part of it I would be mostly flattered that someone liked it enough to use. 

If you are just trying to cut and paste prose that is one thing, but inspiration from others is the norm. There are not many truly original ideas. most of what we do, think and create is an amalgamation of all the things we have read and seen. We can be ashamed of that or we can own it and be proud of our interpretation of it. How many times as Romeo and Juliet been retold, but each with their own spin on the tale? Were any of them objectively bad because they were not original or were they glorious because they were putting new life in old plot? Don't be ashamed to borrow from others to create for yourself, the best authors are the greatest thieves. 

Re: Need to vent?

#35

NinaWrites Wrote: I am scared of burning out. 

I work a very exhausting desk job - that requires more mental energy than I expected. I often work overtime. Then I get home, make food, and its already late. But I want to write. So I write. It's 2 am. I have work in 4 hours. Gah. 

So I don't know how long i can keep up until I can make writing a routine. Will I adapt or fail? I dunno.


Extremely relatable! I used to save writing for the weekends (or quiet lulls during the work day, which were always a pleasant opportunity to write a little scene here and there), and I had to make that a conscious decision because otherwise I'd feel dissatisfied at the end of the day when I was too tired to actually sit down and write. On the up side, I also took a notebook with me to work that I would write in whenever I got a cool little tidbit I didn't want to forget. I would jot it down and get back to work. At least that way, I was still generating ideas that I could write later on during the weekend. But weekends get really full when you work full-time during the work week! Those two days are when you usually get to do the things that you don't have time or energy to do during the week, like certain chores and errands.

Good luck! Hope you find a good balance soon!

Re: Need to vent?

#36

eric_river Wrote: i feel like work is ripping writing time out of my hands
a feeling i'm sure everybody here well understands
i do my job while daydreaming about tales i will write
but there's not nearly enough time to write them all at night
I feel this so much and I can't stand it. Having an office jobs sucks the creativity out of me.