Writing Groups: The number one thing that you can do to make your writing better

#1
Hint: It is  other people.

Bottom line up front: Figure out how to get yourself into a writing group, set your KPIs.
Let’s begin with some terms.
What is a KPI ?
A key progress indication, according to Paper Tigers Debra, is the right way to compare yourself or set a benchmark in your writing.
See here explanation here:
https://youtu.be/kaArOrc-B4M
What the heck is a group KPI ?
Ah, that would be the thing that I am going to try to define in this newsletter.
Are you comparing metrics or goals ? And what is the difference?
Goals are outcomes you want to achieve. Like getting a lot of views, or publishing your work.
Metrics are the things in the process you can measure. Like words written.
I’d suggest looking at what you’ve done before. I tend to write about 1k words per day when I write and I tend to write every day unless something happens. This is something that
They need to be specific. (….and time-bound and all the things the Paper Tigers Debra mentions.)
For example, in your writing group, you can set a reasonable rule. I generally stick to between one page a week or thirty pages. If you can produce one page a week for your group to criticize, then you can get that much better. You could also do thirty terrible pages and still learn.
This might be a little different if you’re a plotter or pantser, but figure out if you need to spend your time outlining the next couple of scenes and scene sequels or just edit what you’ve already written.

Okay got it.
You need to….Quantify what you’re doing/ Quantify what your group is doing!
Can you measure something specific? Has your ability to critique or give notes gotten better? Have you learned something from what they’ve written, perhaps about something that you’re not great at?
For example, I feel like I have problems with the female gaze, and as I was reading this coming of age story into a hero story that one of my group partners was writing it gave me the idea to track down what the coming of age “the maiden” arc is all about. The point is that her work made me look at my work which made me write gooder.
But that is a discussion for another time, alternately you can check out the story I’ve been developing here at https://www.royalroad.com/fiction/46687/red-mist on royal road.
The ultimate quantification I got was when my first drafting skills got better and I was getting more in-depth critiques, and giving more in-depth critiques. In learning how the group wrote, I learned how to write better.
So you can quantify KPIs in many ways, but generally, you need to set them for yourself, then see what your group is willing to accept (one page may seem low but…)
Finding the WHAT and the “so what”
But maybe KPIs are not everything! You need to make sure that you’re setting KPIs for the right things! If your number one goal is finishing the manuscript then you need to set up your KPIs for that. If you’re doing a series of short stories about something, then maybe your KPIs are completed first drafts.
So in a related example, I was asked to set up the conditions for a religious accommodation study of a fictitious country (the what). Now as this was something I hadn’t done, I would have to set up a series of gates to do the work, then check the work. What are the gates? Well, we can survey the population? Okay, but how do we know if it’s(Islam/Christianity) more accepted in the country or not? Well, we need to get people’s honest feedback, and we need to get enough honest feedback so we need to make sure that we’re making progress. So as I explained this to my Chaplain, I told him, “Figure out what now looks like and figure out when we’re checking again, and then design a survey and set the conditions for people to give realistic replies.”
In other words, if someone feels coerced to say something in a survey because they are uncomfortable, it will reflect on their survey if they feel like it will come back to bite them. And if we do our jobs well they will speak their minds…(the so what)
So I hope that makes you think about what you could possibly be doing. In a month from now, how much more have you written? How much more have you read in your genre? How many pages or chapters have you critiqued or reviewed?
The human factor! Okay here is the “so what” of groups!
So you've bought into my ideas and you want to find a writing group. Great. I suggest it and it’s probably the biggest reason that my writing has improved a ton. (Check out my web series if you think I’m bad at this, I’ll wait. While you’re there leave a comment or review.)
There are two ways of doing this. If you’re a die-hard leader then you can recruit people to join your group. When I was looking for a group, I went on places/forums that I frequented to see if there were threads. There are some on r/writing groups, but it’s hard to judge the quality.
If you want to start a group, I would suggest that you have a sample prepared to show people you want to join. If you want to join a group I would suggest the same.
This will probably tell the others in the group if you are a match. I’ve read some stuff that I don’t regularly read {supernatural mystery, dark horror romance} because I wanted to get a feel for those genres and because my friends write in those genres. Good writing is good writing and even if you don’t read the genre you should understand the plot pretty well and be able to pick something up from the story.
Alright! You want to start a group, but how? Well, you’ve got in-person, synchronous, and asynchronous. Each has its place.
May I highly suggest the asynchronous option?
I’m sorry, what? 
The Asynchronous option is the one where you all get on some shared forum(I highly suggest discord) and then post your material up there. Plus you won’t have to go meet someone in person. You can start a small server for your 2-6 person writing group and then give everyone a channel and have a grand old time submitting work and talking about work, or just posting memes about people’s unfinished work( show meme). This obviously since I’m a father of a toddler is the smallest time sink for me, although I do find myself checking discord a lot for people’s critiques or their stories.
This has the advantage of having everything written out if you for some reason have anxiety about making sure that you've got all the notes right. As an added bonus you can put your work on google docs and have people comment right on it(highly suggested).
The synchronous option is the one where you all meet at the same time(and maybe the same physical place if you can) and then go one by one. In this option, you can either take turns critiquing by week, biweekly monthly, etc depending on how your group runs. This option to me sounds a bit like running a dungeons and dragons group in that you have to work with different people’s schedules, but if you can get over that hurdle it should be good.
Alright, you’ve joined a group, or started a group, now what?
Now start reading! Post your material! Get to know the projects that your friends are working on!
Questions? Leave a comment? Got any tips about writing in a group? 

Want to form a group? Honestly, I was surprised I didn't see any threads about this in the forums, so I thought I would add this!

This was also posted on substack!

[url=https://groupkpi.substack.com/p/the-number-one-thing-that-you-can/comments][/url]


Re: Writing Groups: The number one thing that you can do to make your writing better

#3
I’d love to form a writing group, but I feel the approach seems to cold and detached and business-oriented to me. Would it be possible to join or form one with a more casual or otherwise story/quality focused aspect, rather than metrics and trying to get your story published? I personally couldn’t care if mine gets published, though I suppose views would be nice; however, I still am writing mine for me, not for anyone else, and so publishing or pandering aren’t my priorities. Any thoughts?

Re: Writing Groups: The number one thing that you can do to make your writing better

#4

MarcieTheVillain Wrote: I’d love to form a writing group, but I feel the approach seems to cold and detached and business-oriented to me. Would it be possible to join or form one with a more casual or otherwise story/quality focused aspect, rather than metrics and trying to get your story published? I personally couldn’t care if mine gets published, though I suppose views would be nice; however, I still am writing mine for me, not for anyone else, and so publishing or pandering aren’t my priorities. Any thoughts?



So yeah I think that it is very important to set a goal. For me, the goal right now is to write a bunch to get better at it, and I have people in my groups that are years away from publishing something or even putting it on the web. 

The thing that I think would make it easier for you, would be if you say... okay I want to have a writing group where the goal is..... submit a one-page minimum and review/critique whatever my partners write.

It's easy to just get in the zone and just sit down and say I don't know if this piece is any good or not, but with partners, they can tell you where you can improve upon your work.

Like I get it, metrics suck. But if you're not actually writing something, then ....? Having the bare minimum of I will post something to the group at the very least once every X days, it will make you actually put out something, and your group mates will hold you accountable to go through with that thing that you said you want to do.


Okay, so you say that you want to write for fun, which is 100% fine and awesome. Pageviews would be great but are definitely not necessary. What would you ask of someone who wanted to join a group with you under those conditions?

For me? I would say okay, so your goal here is to write for fun, and maybe get a little bit better at writing, so how about in this group we all put in one flash fiction, or one short passage, or even Hey here is my second draft of this. I've done this, subjected people for my second and third drafts, and this is why my fourth draft is with a professional editor right now (who isn't me!), because even though I say I am an editor, I don't have the ability to look objectively at my own work, especially that stuff that I've been over and overworking through.

So what would that look like in practice? You ask for people that are interested in this type of thing. Creative writing, not aimed to publish, aiming to just get better at writing?

Okay, so let me see...

DrakanGlasses

If you are interested in forming a writers group with Marcie, what would you ask for from the group? Asking the forums here.

Because it's easy to start something and just sit on it and not actually critique someone else's work. It's easy to join a group and not participate. The reasons ask for one page and give one page is because it forces us to interact and create something collaboratively.

It's only cold and detached in the abstract. I find that I'm always talking to the other people in my group or making memes about them. The Baron Britpop Blastfurnace guy and I traded memes this week and it was thrilling(via discord).

Re: Writing Groups: The number one thing that you can do to make your writing better

#5
@Weavervale
Thank you for the post! I am also surprised that there isn't a section of the forums dedicated to forming Writing Groups, especially with the new Collaborators feature they just released.

@Marcie
I actually came to the forums looking to join a Writing Group of some variety, well, in particular to assist in writing / editing others' work to gain some experience.

Edit: Just saw Weavervale's response to Marcie. So, off the top of my head, let's say the writing group has the goal of writing a single piece of work. Just one story, not one story for each member, but we're all collaborators for one work. If this story made money, how would the money be split? How do we judge how much work each member has put in? How would kicking a member out of said group work? What if we all just hate each other, or what if someone loses interest, what happens to the story?

There are more questions to be had of course but off the top of my head, these are the questions I'd want answered before we even start doing anything.

Re: Writing Groups: The number one thing that you can do to make your writing better

#6

AppleSquirrel Wrote: @Weavervale
Thank you for the post! I am also surprised that there isn't a section of the forums dedicated to forming Writing Groups, especially with the new Collaborators feature they just released.

@Marcie
I actually came to the forums looking to join a Writing Group of some variety, well, in particular to assist in writing / editing others' work to gain some experience.



Okay so!

The question is(and this is for posterity) what kind of base rules would you be looking for in a writing group, and what rules would not work for you? If it wasn't clear I have an academic interest in this topic.

Re: Writing Groups: The number one thing that you can do to make your writing better

#7
@Weavervale
I don't really have any rules, per se; but I have a goal. My goal is to collaborate on a single work for experience. Rules and such would be set after getting my (and any other potential members') questions answered satisfactorily, which I edited some of into my previous post.

As my goal requires other people, if my goal can't align with yours in some shape or form then I see little reason to be a part of said group.

Re: Writing Groups: The number one thing that you can do to make your writing better

#8


Weavervale Wrote:
MarcieTheVillain Wrote: I’d love to form a writing group, but I feel the approach seems to cold and detached and business-oriented to me. Would it be possible to join or form one with a more casual or otherwise story/quality focused aspect, rather than metrics and trying to get your story published? I personally couldn’t care if mine gets published, though I suppose views would be nice; however, I still am writing mine for me, not for anyone else, and so publishing or pandering aren’t my priorities. Any thoughts?

If you are interested in forming a writers group with Marcie, what would you ask for from the group? Asking the forums here.
I would love to form a writers group with Marcie! I think I align a lot with her mentality.

PeoloveU
Personally, I'm not currently interested in the biz side of writing, I don't think my work is good enough yet anyway, which is why I'd rather join a casual and creative group. I think what I would want from a group is a place to share ideas and hash out concepts as well as test concepts against other people. I have a few non-RR friends that I do this with already at random times while playing valheim. I think if it were to be a slightly more serious group it would also focus a bit on the technical aspects as well rather than just story, character, and worlds. At the same time, I'm not sure if everyone cares about the technical aspects (namely grammar and style), as a reader I can forgive a lot on this platform. In another viewpoint I suppose that those technical aspects can be accomplished by editors, then the question is: "Is it necessary for a writer to focus on that."

IDK that's just my two cents.
What I imagine it'd look like is everyone hops on discord once a week and share out thoughts and works with each other

@Marcie feel free to message me! even if we don't form a group, I'd love to be your writer buddy! XD

Re: Writing Groups: The number one thing that you can do to make your writing better

#10

AppleSquirrel Wrote: @Weavervale
Thank you for the post! I am also surprised that there isn't a section of the forums dedicated to forming Writing Groups, especially with the new Collaborators feature they just released.

@Marcie
I actually came to the forums looking to join a Writing Group of some variety, well, in particular to assist in writing / editing others' work to gain some experience.

Edit: Just saw Weavervale's response to Marcie. So, off the top of my head, let's say the writing group has the goal of writing a single piece of work. Just one story, not one story for each member, but we're all collaborators for one work. If this story made money, how would the money be split? How do we judge how much work each member has put in? How would kicking a member out of said group work? What if we all just hate each other, or what if someone loses interest, what happens to the story?

There are more questions to be had of course but off the top of my head, these are the questions I'd want answered before we even start doing anything.





Alright here is my well-thought-out point for point help for you, Applesquirrel!

If this story made money, how would the money be split?


Publishing is gambling! Chances are you won't make much!


Publishers lose money on almost every book they publish, take a look here.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TrgRWJvhLjw

Writing books is not a good idea: long read but well researched.

https://ellegriffin.substack.com/p/creator-economy-for-fiction-authors

And even Elle Griffin notes that only about 15 authors currently make a living selling web stuff on Patreon.

https://ellegriffin.substack.com/p/on-kickstarter-royalroad-kindle-substack

I'm not saying that it is impossible to make a living, just highly unlikely.


99.99% times out of 100 you won't make enough to even argue about who gets money or not.




But let's say in the highly unlikely event that you do make something.. well then

You asked about who owns the rights, well this is where you have to really know the person. Without a good relationship to start with, there is no trust. Every person in my current writing group(s)(HI GUYS!) now I have a strong bond of trust with after months of critiquing each other. I would gladly do a short story with one of them although I tend to write longer stuff(my manuscript for my book is at 95k words, red mist I estimate volume 1 will be 80k-100k).

So if you have someone that you really truly trust, then I would say, make the asker.


Two famous writing teams come to mind here. The fact that there are only two tells me something. Also one of them is a pair of TV writers, but famously has the exact type of writing you seem to want to do(in groups/collaborative/creative)

One is James S.A. Corey the pen name for the pair that wrote the expanse. That is so good it became an Amazon prime video series. I think it was based on a starfinder campaign although I could be wrong.

The other writer pair are the current showrunners for the TV show Fantasy Island, Liz Craft, and Sarah Fein. They do a podcast called "Happier in Hollywood" which goes over writers' rooms and I think that might be something you're interested in. There's a lot of backlog and yeah I highly recommend that.

It sounds like you want to be in a writers ROOM and work on something rather than a writers critique GROUP.


How do we judge how much work each member has put in?

This here is the problem of group work. If you're both or all four working on a google doc, then it's easy to track changes, but if you're not, then you need to collaborate in a synchronous manner. You need to have meetings and all that business. Chances are, you or another partner won't be putting in 100% and that is why you really need to have buy in from all parties. You want volunteers, not recruits.

How would kicking a member out of said group work?

I've had to kick a member out once and it wasn't that bad, only thing was they were all excited to join and comment in the discord chats, but they never wrote something (and we were super lenient) so finally after months of inaction, the rest of us just had a short chat and asked them to post something or we were going to kick them from the server. It is a bit different if say they were promised a cut of something.

If it were me? This would be either a consensus vote off the island or, more likely there is a group leader who takes the person aside and gives them a chance to fix it or resign.


What if we all just hate each other, or what if someone loses interest, what happens to the story?

This right here is why you need to go in with eyes open. I would say if you're not trying to make money? Make is creative commons. If you are? then you probably need to pay people to write. I don't have people work for me for free. I paid for my cover art, and I'm paying for my developmental editor for my book. If you want to have a super nonhierarchical setup yeah that sounds great but...

as a project manager? That probably won't work out so well. I would suggest that if you want to do this? Make it a non-paid thing. (This is better according to the book "Drive" and this is a concept I'm trying to wrap my head around)

If you get good doing it? Then you should all publish it as an ebook/self pub/audiobook and share the royalties. There won't be much unless you're great but writing groups are about getting better at writing.


I hope that this is helpful. It sounds like you want to write for TV or podcasting as that seems to suit what you're after. Maybe you could write an awesome youtube series?

Re: Writing Groups: The number one thing that you can do to make your writing better

#11
Thank you for all of the information :).

I think you have a lot of very good points, especially with the trust aspect. I suppose I had it backwards: instead of collaborating first and moving on to a writing group after I get experience, I should join a writing group to get better and, should I find someone I get along with well enough and trust well enough who is willing to, then maybe work together on a small project.

On the topic of non-book mediums for group projects, there is also video game writing, but I personally am just interested in novels.

So, with that said, I am also interested in Marcie's casual writing group. I have my own book that I recently started working on and would love to give and get constructive criticisms, while not being overly serious especially because it'd be my first writing group. So, if you wouldn't mind someone new to writing, send me an invite too.

Also, is your Red Mist title a reference to Redwall? 

Re: Writing Groups: The number one thing that you can do to make your writing better

#12

AppleSquirrel Wrote: Thank you for all of the information :).

I think you have a lot of very good points, especially with the trust aspect. I suppose I had it backwards: instead of collaborating first and moving on to a writing group after I get experience, I should join a writing group to get better and, should I find someone I get along with well enough and trust well enough who is willing to, then maybe work together on a small project.

On the topic of non-book mediums for group projects, there is also video game writing, but I personally am just interested in novels.

So, with that said, I am also interested in Marcie's casual writing group. I have my own book that I recently started working on and would love to give and get constructive criticisms, while not being overly serious especially because it'd be my first writing group. So, if you wouldn't mind someone new to writing, send me an invite too.

Also, is your Red Mist title a reference to Redwall?
 Inspired by Redwall + Mistborn

(also Bridgerton and others)

Re: Writing Groups: The number one thing that you can do to make your writing better

#14

Vivian Wrote: This was a very, very long post to basically just say 'Join a group, share your work and get critique in order to get better, while also focusing on your actual goal.'
That's certainly a way to TLDR it but I found his post to be much more informative and detailed for people interested in joining a group than just that TLDR provides.

Re: Writing Groups: The number one thing that you can do to make your writing better

#15
I really love the idea of a writers group. Having what is essentially friendly, understanding beta readers would be great. I have a reader that has essentially been acting as a beta reader and helping me immensely with the novel I'm publishing. I can't tell you how useful the opinions and advice have been. I also agree with a lot of what you said, and I think if you want to improve as a writer then setting goals is a good idea. However, KPIs are a completely different beast that can turn writing from a passion to a chore. If someone wants to use KPIs that's cool, but I know a lot of writers do this either as a hobby or because they enjoy it and I don't think KPIs are necessary to be successful. A steady schedule would be far more beneficial, I believe.

As far as trust goes, that is definitely an issue. Especially considering that there is no real safety net for web novel Authors'. However, even as it stands, people who post web novels, or on RR period, stand a chance of having their work stolen. Having a writers group that reads 1 chapter ahead isn't a big deal if you consider the aforementioned issue. Besides, if the goal is purely to improve as an author and you have the time, you could always write a secondary story to have reviewed by the group.

So, if anyone wants to form a writers group, then I'd love to join!

Re: Writing Groups: The number one thing that you can do to make your writing better

#16

MarcieTheVillain Wrote: I’d love to form a writing group, but I feel the approach seems to cold and detached and business-oriented to me. Would it be possible to join or form one with a more casual or otherwise story/quality focused aspect, rather than metrics and trying to get your story published? I personally couldn’t care if mine gets published, though I suppose views would be nice; however, I still am writing mine for me, not for anyone else, and so publishing or pandering aren’t my priorities. Any thoughts?


Not all writing groups have to be so formal. Some people just do this for fun, or as a hobby, and that's okay. It doesn't make their opinion any less important, or their content any worse, or their desire to get better invalid. The only requirement for a writing group, in my opinion, is the desire to improve.

I recommend checking youtube for Brandon Sanderson's videos. He uploads videos of his Lectures for creative writing at BYU, that you might find helpful. He also has Five tips for writing your first Novel. which is an interesting watch. Somewhere in one of those videos(Or maybe one of the videos in the Lectures playlist?) He mentions how he has known many people in writing groups and classes that Never published their work! He even claims that some of them were incredible authors, the just didn't have the desire to publish.

So, if you want to form a writing group, do it! Also, I'd like to join if you do, and would allow it.

Re: Writing Groups: The number one thing that you can do to make your writing better

#17

Weavervale Wrote: Publishing is gambling! Chances are you won't make much!


Publishers lose money on almost every book they publish, take a look here.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TrgRWJvhLjw

Writing books is not a good idea: long read but well researched.

https://ellegriffin.substack.com/p/creator-economy-for-fiction-authors

And even Elle Griffin notes that only about 15 authors currently make a living selling web stuff on Patreon.

https://ellegriffin.substack.com/p/on-kickstarter-royalroad-kindle-substack

I'm not saying that it is impossible to make a living, just highly unlikely.

Pardon the interjection, but I feel I should interject a bit since this is relevant to me. What you and the article have said is without a doubt true... With the caveat that the author lives in a first world country. 

Authors who live in places with (from your perspective) dirt cheap wages and living expenses on the other hand, could very well make a living with far less income. For example, 300$ a month is enough for me to live luxuriously where I am.

So sometimes you need to also consider that different people have very large variance on what constitutes "making money"




Re: Writing Groups: The number one thing that you can do to make your writing better

#18

Avitue Wrote:
Weavervale Wrote: Publishing is gambling! Chances are you won't make much!


Publishers lose money on almost every book they publish, take a look here.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TrgRWJvhLjw

Writing books is not a good idea: long read but well researched.

https://ellegriffin.substack.com/p/creator-economy-for-fiction-authors

And even Elle Griffin notes that only about 15 authors currently make a living selling web stuff on Patreon.

https://ellegriffin.substack.com/p/on-kickstarter-royalroad-kindle-substack

I'm not saying that it is impossible to make a living, just highly unlikely.

Pardon the interjection, but I feel I should interject a bit since this is relevant to me. What you and the article have said is without a doubt true... With the caveat that the author lives in a first world country. 

Authors who live in places with (from your perspective) dirt cheap wages and living expenses on the other hand, could very well make a living with far less income. For example, 300$ a month is enough for me to live luxuriously where I am.

So sometimes you need to also consider that different people have very large variance on what constitutes "making money"



This is very important and I don't want to be a classist. I understand that I'm in a first world county and I have advantages inherent in this. 

Paper tiger broke down this idea that you have to be rich, in order to self publish really well.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j_D-9JXCRHg&t=2s

And I stand by it, you could probably self publish with not much money. Like I'd pay a developmental editor like 1k USD for an edit because I want my stuff to be good, knowing that not everyone could afford it.

But if you're in a third world country and you want to get better at your craft? Heck yes, I'll help you out if I can. I'll read whatever you have this weekend if you want a short critique, and I'll review it as well. (feel free to review my stuff also)

But if $300 a month is lifesaving? Write on! (Just don't expect to make that quickly or overnight.)

Re: Writing Groups: The number one thing that you can do to make your writing better

#19
Well this topic kind of spiraled into a different area. I believe it's true though, making money especially a living at indie publishing is incredibly difficult and it may be even more difficult traditionally publishing. However, if anyone is to have any chance of making money or possibly a living indie publishing, I think the best way is to go about it the way Dean Wesley Smith talks about it on his blog. But doing things his way is not really what most people would go for, because he goes against the grain.

His philosophy is to write a ton, don't revise your work, and write clean the first draft. Learn how to do your own covers, and put tons of stuff out there on all the possible platforms so that your books are sold, basically worldwide on all the different platforms. He says that after you have about 50 individual works you might start seeing some small sales trickle in and the more you publish the more those sales trickle in. When you have hundreds of works those small income streams all add up together to make an income stream that you can live off of.

Re: Writing Groups: The number one thing that you can do to make your writing better

#20

Weavervale Wrote:
Avitue Wrote:
Weavervale Wrote: Publishing is gambling! Chances are you won't make much!


Publishers lose money on almost every book they publish, take a look here.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TrgRWJvhLjw

Writing books is not a good idea: long read but well researched.

https://ellegriffin.substack.com/p/creator-economy-for-fiction-authors

And even Elle Griffin notes that only about 15 authors currently make a living selling web stuff on Patreon.

https://ellegriffin.substack.com/p/on-kickstarter-royalroad-kindle-substack

I'm not saying that it is impossible to make a living, just highly unlikely.

Pardon the interjection, but I feel I should interject a bit since this is relevant to me. What you and the article have said is without a doubt true... With the caveat that the author lives in a first world country. 

Authors who live in places with (from your perspective) dirt cheap wages and living expenses on the other hand, could very well make a living with far less income. For example, 300$ a month is enough for me to live luxuriously where I am.

So sometimes you need to also consider that different people have very large variance on what constitutes "making money"



This is very important and I don't want to be a classist. I understand that I'm in a first world county and I have advantages inherent in this. 

Paper tiger broke down this idea that you have to be rich, in order to self publish really well.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j_D-9JXCRHg&t=2s

And I stand by it, you could probably self publish with not much money. Like I'd pay a developmental editor like 1k USD for an edit because I want my stuff to be good, knowing that not everyone could afford it.

But if you're in a third world country and you want to get better at your craft? Heck yes, I'll help you out if I can. I'll read whatever you have this weekend if you want a short critique, and I'll review it as well. (feel free to review my stuff also)

But if $300 a month is lifesaving? Write on! (Just don't expect to make that quickly or overnight.)
I'm probably a lucky one, but I'm already nearly halfway there after three weeks of opening a patreon. 


When I check around many other popular fictions with patreons, I also see many who already have three-digit income, so yeah. While this is far less viable for some, for others this can literally allow us to take the plunge to quit jobs and write full time. :)

Edit: and sure! I happen to be looking for new reads anyway.