Re: Is RR audience more homo-/transphobic compared to other similar sites?

#21
My first story got a wave of 0.5 stars after a side character revealed that she was bi. (Really, she was a hedonistic person that didn't care about gender, but that's irrelevant) and I ended up pulling the story.

As far as I'm concerned, that sent me the message of what degree of acceptance RR really has. 

There's a lot of inclusive talk on the forums, but it's not at all reflective of readers.

Re: Is RR audience more homo-/transphobic compared to other similar sites?

#22

Nestor1079 Wrote: My first story got a wave of 0.5 stars after a side character revealed that she was bi. (Really, she was a hedonistic person that didn't care about gender, but that's irrelevant) and I ended up pulling the story.

As far as I'm concerned, that sent me the message of what degree of acceptance RR really has. 

There's a lot of inclusive talk on the forums, but it's not at all reflective of readers.
If it came in rapidly, you can report it. Since the admins will have a pattern to follow, and would be much more likely to remove it. Providing I suppose, you identify when this occurred.

Re: Is RR audience more homo-/transphobic compared to other similar sites?

#23
My story has a trans protagonist, and while I do get occasional transphobic comments and the low ratings coincidentally show up whenever I mention he's trans on the forums, I don't end up with all that many transphobic comments.

But to be fair I don't have a high volume of comments in general, and you have to read a few chapters into the story before the MC being trans is mentioned, so it's possible that I just don't get that many transphobic readers/commenters and my experience might not be representative.

Re: Is RR audience more homo-/transphobic compared to other similar sites?

#24

Sereminar Wrote: So the rando reddit user you saw was probably talking about the following.

A couple of years ago a bunch of trans authors on the website tgstorytime.com tried to make the website a safer place for them and their audience by getting the mods to actually do something about all the harassment they kept getting for writing stories with trans themes. After a few months of pushing and the owners doing jack about it they decided to move shop and at the time RR seemed like a good choice.

When a sudden influx of trans stories hit RR there was a harsh backlash by a smallish number of readers who sent harassment over comments, reviews, PM's, etc. So again, the authors reported it, hoping that the mods/admin would step in and stop it. Sadly the only support they got was for the worst of it (the death threats and things on that level). Meaning that they were again left to fend for themselves.

After a few months of this they left again, this time for scribblehub where many still post today. In fact most of the trans authors i follow post on scribblehub. Where they are able to tag their stories with "BL" "GL" "Transgender" and "Bisexual" and where the mods actually support them.

If you want to know why RR mods were so lukewarm in their support of these authors then the following might help illuminate it. from this blog post
Quote:Please note that when we decided on a new batch of genres and tags, we picked them based on two factors. 1. What is popular in our community: We removed previously established genres that didn't have enough fictions (such as non-fic) and added tags that many fictions would have(such as the list above). Or 2. things we were interested in growing on our platform.

The Yuri/Yaoi stories did not make the cut for either of these requirements.

However, our position as a platform is that we would like to distance ourselves from overly mature content.

We previously had requests to add the Yuri/Yaoi tag, so we took this decision very seriously and put a lot of consideration before making a choice. We researched other platforms that already have this tag, and noticed that the majority of cases, fictions with the LGBT tag are sexual in nature.

While it is unfortunate, and we do agree that there exist many stories of such nature that don't contain sexual content in them, we'd prefer to err on the side of caution and not include the tags.
So lets look at this point by point.
1: it's not popular enough? Here's a very incomplete list of about 400 stories on RR alone lgbtqia+ stories
2: "things we were interested in growing on our platform" obviously this is at the whim of admin
3: too sexual. Well, they still have the "Harem" tag, don't they?
So we're left with just one real point: they don't want to encourage these stories on their site.

So back to your request for proof. It's hard to collect because authors can delete comments from chapters, mods can delete the more heinous reviews, we can't see the positive reviews that trolls got deleted for not being informative enough, and we can't see authors PM's. So unless you message a few dozen authors asking for proof it's hard to come by. That being said here are a few that I found in just a bit of searching
Spoiler: content warning: biggoted bs
All that being said, the reason I stay on this website and the reason I helped put in a ton of effort on that lgbtqia+ stories list is because I think this website can become a more accepting place and I want to support the authors that are helping it reach that potential. Nowadays lgbtqia+ stories tend to slide under the radar of trolls and are really nice and supportive little micro-communities. But as seen in all those examples, if a more popular story reveals that a main character isn't cis/het there is still a pretty harsh backlash, even when it shouldn't come as a surprise to the readers.

Hopefully this post helped you a bit!



Aight, let's dig into this one 

Here's the TL;DR though ahead of time: There's no practical point to trying to post LGBT on RR. The site isn't known to be the place to look for LGBT stories, so potential readers aren't here. Trying to make it happen can only cause damage - Either it works and now there's two split demographics of readers, both being forced to sort out the other group's fictions from their front page and likely getting into turf wars with one another - which will end with some copy-cat RR site popping up to specialize in the RR niche and the cycle starts all over again, or it doesn't work and you end up with what we have now - a few hundred stories with no readerbase and authors confused about why that happened. 


There's no winning move here, RR's niche is already picked and the userbase is already here.  


1) 400 stories on a site shows that there are authors that want to write that. Fair point, there are a good amount of people who want to write LGBT content. Out of RR's 8K or so stories, that's about 5% which is respectable. 

What it doesn't cover is if those fictions are things readers want to read. A quick look through the follower count for all these show 50-100 followers for most. Something popular on this site is around 1.5K followers or higher. 

2) Fiction sites have niches - Tapas novelas for smut/boys love/yuri, Scribblehub for more anime specific stuff, Fanfiction for fanfictions, Spacebattles for self-insert fanfictions, and worm fics, ect. Point is, every site has a niche that they aim for, and if it were possible to share niches, the internet wouldn't look how it does right now. 

If the site wants to suceed, they need to aim for their niche and stick to it. The site owners are after improving the user experience in the end, all other considerations don't come into it. If people come to this site for X type of stories, and the front page is populated by X and Y stories, the user will have to sort out the Y stories manually which impact the experience. Eventually, there will be a new RR copycat that shows up presenting only X type stories, and the RR fanbase moves on. That's basically how RR was started in the first place, it became a spot for a specific type of fiction and people knew this was where you went to go read it. 

I get where you're coming from, but it's not business logic. 

3) Agreed with point number 3. Harem tag usually involves smut, and I guess the site owners turn a blind eye to that so long as the front page isn't filled with it. Again - user experience. If someone's looking for smut, they're not going to be picking up RR, they go to literotica. And so long as RR isn't considered a place to go for smut, the admins are probably lax. The moment that changes, you'll probably see some fictions get pruned I'd bet. 

Again to re-iterate: If it were possible for one site to contain all kinds of demographics - we would have seen that already. There wouldn't be things like RR, Ao3, Fanfiction.net, literotica, tapas novels, novel translate, ect. We'd have one watering hole that got there first and that's where we'd all end up on - E.G. Wattpad would be the end all be all of where you to to post up your fic. 

Try posting the single most popular romance novel in the entire internet on here - something you know with 100% confidence is a master class of that genre, and I almost guarantee that there wouldn't be more than a few hundred followers in total. Why? Because people who read romance novels don't visit RR in the first place - they'll go to their own community hubs where they'll find that story and a whole bunch of others. It would be a massive disservice to post a romance novel on this site when another site is a far better culture fit. 

I don't think the site admins have some agenda or some dislike for LGBT, or that they go attend KKK rallies in their off time. There isn't some underhanded plot, this is just the result of social darwinism on net culture. 

The users, the readerbase, the comments and PM's people are talking about are all just symptoms of game theory in action. If you want the place where LGBT stories are both welcome - and have a readerbase, then you're looking for this site:

https://www.webnovel.com/tags/lgbt-novel

Why bother with RR? 

  

Re: Is RR audience more homo-/transphobic compared to other similar sites?

#25
Bresandor Wrote: What it doesn't cover is if those fictions are things readers want to read. A quick look through the follower count for all these show 50-100 followers for most. Something popular on this site is around 1.5K followers or higher.

The Agartha Loop.  This Quest is Bullshit.  Stray Cat Strut.  The Daily Grind.  Ar'Kendrithyst.  I'm tired of looking.  Outside that list, I'm pretty sure The Menocht Loop was going that direction when I dropped it (the way a certain character was written reminded me uncomfortably of a mildly toxic ex boyfriend), but, well, I dropped it.  Also pretty sure the protagonist of Azarinth Healer is bi.  Also Post Human.  Also I'm tired of remembering examples of successful LGBT+ stories because there are a lot, because honestly, it isn't important anymore.

You can write LGBT+ stuff here if you want; you can succeed at it.  Judging the success of LGBT+ stuff based on a list which is in large part a product of self-selection by the authors will bias your perspective; to at least some extent, the list serves as a mechanism of increasing exposure for works, which means authors who are looking for more exposure (that is, those who don't have 1,500 followers) are more likely to add their work to the list than authors who aren't.

And again, what exactly is the purpose here?  Is the purpose to tell LGBT+ authors to leave Royal Road, because we're unwelcome here?  Because, ahem, buahahahaha.  Cough.  Cough.  Hahahahahaha.  And if not, maybe, uh, look at what you're saying, and rethink some things.

Re: Is RR audience more homo-/transphobic compared to other similar sites?

#26

GodCore Wrote: Gender-Bender/Trans content, so they switched to SH instead. The weeb/otaku/anime audience are a bit more open to trans content, is my guess.


Well, right off the bat, gender bender content =/= transgender content.

Gender bender is guy/girl becomes a girl/guy, but is still functionally a guy/girl. That is not the typical transgender experience even a little bit. Someone who is transgender genuinely believes they are the wrong gender/sex they were born as. To lump the former with the latter is, honestly, quite insulting.

A transgender person is not going to relate to a gender-bent character, their experiences are nowhere near the same (in fact, they are quite the opposite since the gender-bent person typically wants to return to their old sex). It should be noted that, technically, "gender bent" isn't the proper term* as gender is a social construct and most often gender bent character have their sexual characteristics changed while still retaining their old gender identity.


*I am, of course, being semantic here. Gender/Sex are used interchangeably in common speech, but they do refer to different things. Semantically, gender bent characters are actually "Sex bent". This is of course the same thing for the common usage of "transgender", but this is preferred over "transsexual" because the latter term historically was often used as a slur, so "transgender" has become an umbrella term to describe the two concepts.


I'm not trying to pick on you, I'm assuming you genuinely didn't know. But just a light reading of this thread's first and second pages have given me the impression that a lot of people here don't actually know what proper LGBTQ+ representation is.

EDIT: And to answer the question posed ITT:

I don't think RR is inherently homo/transphobic than other sites. You see that literally anywhere. I think a lot of it is, like I said above, people genuinely not knowing what real LGBTQ+ representation is. You do get people 0.5 starring LGBTQ+ stories, but you get people 0.5 starring just about anything. More often than not, in my experience, it's not because the story has X content in it, it's because the writing is plain bad. I saw that with the first launch of my current story vs. this current launch.

Re: Is RR audience more homo-/transphobic compared to other similar sites?

#29

TenThousandSuns Wrote:
Bizzerk Wrote: I'm more interested in this "ScribbleHub".

How's that?
Scribblehub has a large crossover with RR but the major distinction is smut. Piles of it. Sort of like Literotica but with litrpgs and light novels instead of wannabe Nightstand Books authors.

a lot of stories and authors publish both here and there, and scribble hub is cooperating with novelupdates, which means your fiction is visible there too. there is no reason not to post there as well

That being said, I prefer royal road community. not because, as this thread implies, it's more homo and transphobic, I don't like discrimination, either. 
But because on average, people on royal road seem to have high IQ and the forums are more active as well. 
Just look at what kinda stories are top-rated on scribble hub and you will see my point...here the same stories have at least 1 star less on average, and rightfully so

I've read a thread of someone posting initial chapters of actually fairly well-written novel there, and what advice did he receive? something along the lines of "your novel is too wordy, and would make a good hardcover, but people here prefer light novel style prose(one-liners) and your story probably won't gather much interest".
The worst thing is, he wasn't even lying.

But on the other hand, I think wattpad is even worse than sh, when it comes to pure idiocy of average user. On wattpad, a wizards of oz(the original, not some remake) used to be no.1 story in fantasy category for a long time, and I think still is 

DrakanLaugh

Re: Is RR audience more homo-/transphobic compared to other similar sites?

#30
An extra point worth considering is that most, if not all stories, get 0.5* ratings. We get thread after thread on the forums "Why did I get a 0.5 star??? :(((". For everyone it's a mystery. But if you have a LGBT story, I've seen authors immediately jump to the conclusion that the 0.5* must've been from  someone homophobic.

It's easy to use as an umbrella excuse. Story not popular? Audience is homophobic. Bad ratings? Audience must be homophobic. Etc. So be careful about that.

Now I'm sure that such works DO get some more hate/rating bombing than usual. But at the same time, other LGBT stories succeed here in a big way. If you have ten 0.5*, maybe a few are from people who dislike gay stuff, but the rest are the default baseline for any story, I think. 

And don't forget that you have a small army of authors/readers ready to rate/review/shoutout your stories solely because it's LGBT and they wish to promote that. That's an advantage too, other genres don't have that kind of pack mentality.

Re: Is RR audience more homo-/transphobic compared to other similar sites?

#31

Bresandor Wrote: Here's the TL;DR though ahead of time: There's no practical point to trying to post LGBT on RR. The site isn't known to be the place to look for LGBT stories, so potential readers aren't here. Trying to make it happen can only cause damage - Either it works and now there's two split demographics of readers, both being forced to sort out the other group's fictions from their front page and likely getting into turf wars with one another - which will end with some copy-cat RR site popping up to specialize in the RR niche and the cycle starts all over again, or it doesn't work and you end up with what we have now - a few hundred stories with no readerbase and authors confused about why that happened. 


There's no winning move here, RR's niche is already picked and the userbase is already here.
A good post with a lot of good points. But at the same time, RR's niche is gameLIT. Not specifically gameLIT with straight cis MC's. I doubt the majority of the readerbase truly cares if a character is LGBTQ or not, as long as it isn't the focus of the plot. Many are vocal about it, but the majority, likely not. Already, like I said before, most of the female MC's on the site are lesbians, and that's probably to write a female mc and still cater to a male audience. Like... that's LGBTQ right there... and it's everywhere, including popular-this-week and top rated fics. 


So why not a tag for it? It's obviously very popular here. 

Re: Is RR audience more homo-/transphobic compared to other similar sites?

#32

B.A. Wrote:
GodCore Wrote: Gender-Bender/Trans content, so they switched to SH instead. The weeb/otaku/anime audience are a bit more open to trans content, is my guess.


Well, right off the bat, gender bender content =/= transgender content.

Gender bender is guy/girl becomes a girl/guy, but is still functionally a guy/girl. That is not the typical transgender experience even a little bit. Someone who is transgender genuinely believes they are the wrong gender/sex they were born as. To lump the former with the latter is, honestly, quite insulting.

A transgender person is not going to relate to a gender-bent character, their experiences are nowhere near the same (in fact, they are quite the opposite since the gender-bent person typically wants to return to their old sex). It should be noted that, technically, "gender bent" isn't the proper term* as gender is a social construct and most often gender bent character have their sexual characteristics changed while still retaining their old gender identity.


*I am, of course, being semantic here. Gender/Sex are used interchangeably in common speech, but they do refer to different things. Semantically, gender bent characters are actually "Sex bent". This is of course the same thing for the common usage of "transgender", but this is preferred over "transsexual" because the latter term historically was often used as a slur, so "transgender" has become an umbrella term to describe the two concepts.


I'm not trying to pick on you, I'm assuming you genuinely didn't know. But just a light reading of this thread's first and second pages have given me the impression that a lot of people here don't actually know what proper LGBTQ+ representation is.

EDIT: And to answer the question posed ITT:

I don't think RR is inherently homo/transphobic than other sites. You see that literally anywhere. I think a lot of it is, like I said above, people genuinely not knowing what real LGBTQ+ representation is. You do get people 0.5 starring LGBTQ+ stories, but you get people 0.5 starring just about anything. More often than not, in my experience, it's not because the story has X content in it, it's because the writing is plain bad. I saw that with the first launch of my current story vs. this current launch.
But in a way one could argue that it is fantasy for LGBT people. Like normal Isekai readers fantasize about going to other world. The LGBT audience could be fantasizing about being transmigrated into the body of a person of the sex they want to be.

Just my thoughts. A LGBT person needs to comment on this view to see if it's valid.

Re: Is RR audience more homo-/transphobic compared to other similar sites?

#33

GodCore Wrote: But in a way one could argue that it is fantasy for LGBT people. Like normal Isekai readers fantasize about going to other world. The LGBT audience could be fantasizing about being transmigrated into the body of a person of the sex they want to be.

Just my thoughts. A LGBT person needs to comment on this view to see if it's valid.

Hmm, nah.
I think, I know what you are trying to say, but - just from my personal experience - I would disagree. I haven't read any gender-bend stories, honestly, I do stay away from that tag for two reasons (as an lgbt person). First of all, I am afraid of fetishization that might or might not happen. Secondly: trans people (sometimes, not all the time, and not all) experience gender dysphoria. It's ... hard to explain, I do know one good analogy but honestly, I don't want to share it right now because it would lead astray. Anyway, it's not pleasant. And I imagine that these fictions deal with comparisons of these old body and new body but not as in "this is who I am" but "this is not who I am".
I can't speak for all queer people, of course. I recently tagged my own fiction with gender-bending because I do deal with actively being forced into a body that is not your own, and not your own sex. But that is exactly the point: it's not a decision, it's forced. And it's not their own body, it's someone else's. 

Re: Is RR audience more homo-/transphobic compared to other similar sites?

#34

GodCore Wrote: I was reading a post about why there is so much Gender Bender stuff on ScribbleHub, then one user claimed that RR users were sending death threats, hate replies/comments/messages to authors writing Gender-Bender/Trans content, so they switched to SH instead. The weeb/otaku/anime audience are a bit more open to trans content, is my guess.

I don't want to take the word of one Reddit poster, so I wanted to check with others on this site.

Hope some one can point me to such reviews/comments etc. Or your experience and comparision with the communities of SH or other sites and RR when it comes to gay/trans content if you are an author or a reader.

I don't want to argue with trans/homophobes on this post. I just want to the stastistics or examples of hate speech/comments/reviews on such novels, so I can check for myself and see if it's true. I am just curious because I have nothing better to do.


Random boobs on reddit don't know anything. They're not established authors nor do they know statistical analysis like I do.

You can't compare RR to SH in this regard because of the gargantuan gap in genres skew which affects the curve of ratings:

The biggest gap is that RR is its Genre association. 18+ content, smut and romance does VERY poorly on here compared to SH, Wattpad or Amazon.
SH is drowning in 18+ smut series taking the top books, sites like Wattpad win with Romance, while Fantasy PG Litrpg are at the top here.

Having 18+ stuff, harems or even romance in your book will 100% tank your rating on RR and bless you with bad reviews or low readership.

There are plenty of very successful gender-bender series on RR, but if the author includes 18+ stuff or relationships into their books, they tank.
Also, RR has way high standard of writing compared to SH. Having poor grammar will crush a book on here vs SH where people give zero fucks about spelling.
SH doesn't care for reviews - the review button is incredibly difficult to find on that site. People on RR thrive on writing detailed analysis reviews.
Some of these reviewers/commenters are nitpickers - if the book contains ANY theme they don't like, they will nitpick it to death.

Re: Is RR audience more homo-/transphobic compared to other similar sites?

#35
BookBub, an online advertising company for books states that the reader demand for the LGBT genre compared to other genres is incredibly small. So including a lot of those elements, especial if they're main elements, may turn more readers away. Audience analysis, at least in the Hollywood formula, states that a character's race, age and gender are all major factors for audience appeal based on direct repeatability to the viewership. At least, this is what David Farland says. In gaming, 70% of the male audience wants to play a male protagonist.

I'm not sure how the breakdown in audience goes on RR exactly, but I do know that LitRPG and Isekai stuff tends to do pretty good. My mostly sci fi stuff is falling almost flat on its face, and my female lead romance was doing about the same. But I took out an add for two million impressions (yes, two million) and I got 25 followers, hahaha!

On another note, my novel Wakiagaru has very short chapters. That's typically not what people are after on here and I recently got a review for the story where the reviewer used the word "shame" half a dozen times in regards to the chapter length, and even states he wouldn't read anymore of my stuff.

Meh!

Re: Is RR audience more homo-/transphobic compared to other similar sites?

#36

Kratos Wrote: I think, I know what you are trying to say, but - just from my personal experience - I would disagree. I haven't read any gender-bend stories, honestly, I do stay away from that tag for two reasons (as an lgbt person). First of all, I am afraid of fetishization that might or might not happen. Secondly: trans people (sometimes, not all the time, and not all) experience gender dysphoria. It's ... hard to explain, I do know one good analogy but honestly, I don't want to share it right now because it would lead astray. Anyway, it's not pleasant. And I imagine that these fictions deal with comparisons of these old body and new body but not as in "this is who I am" but "this is not who I am".



I'm openly biroace and, though I'm not a trans person, I've dated a few and am friends with enough to have learned their experiences. And I'd say you're pretty spot on.

One of the things people don't really pay attention to is what a "genre" actually is, which is the same mistake the guy I quoted is making by lumping "gender bender" content with "trans" content. Gender bender is, generally, a specific set of tropes that are wholly different from what a transgender person would experience. And to your point of fetishization, you're absolutely right. Yuri/Yaoi content are often (but not always) the sexualization of those dynamics. Most often gender bender content is "what would a straight guy do if he were in a woman's body" not "what would a man who believes they are a woman do in a woman's body". It's that misapplication of that one genre to the other that makes it insulting.

Looking at my own story, it has a large cast of LGBTQ+ characters, but it's not LGBTQ+ fiction (it's epic fantasy/gamelit/litrpg that features a cast of LGBTQ+ characters). I don't use the standard tropes of LGBTQ+ fiction: relationships and storylines that are built on the experiences of being LGBTQ+ (most often the protagonist not being accepted by society and/or their family for being queer and the experiences that come from that). My story just has them there without making their relationships (or, more specifically, their relationship's identity) as the focus of their storylines.

The first character introduced is a lesbian and her wife is bisexual. But these aren't stated and they don't really face any issues from society because of their relationship. Instead, that first character (Tyree), battles with the loss of her friends and family at the hands of powerful beings treating her and everyone else in her world as nothing more than a game. Her story is that of revenge against the loss of her relationships, not at her relationship itself being accepted by society.

In that same way, you wouldn't call a story about trans characters "gender bender" because the tropes aren't the same.

Sorry, I'm rambling
  DrakanSweat

Re: Is RR audience more homo-/transphobic compared to other similar sites?

#37
For those asking why there isn't a tag for LGBT stuff on the site, the answer is this has been asked repeatedly. The problem is because it tends to instantly turn into political soap boxing, even in the very threads asking for it. 

 A thing to remember for this thread in particular is that a lack of tagging isn't hate either. The site takes strides to keep IRL politics out and sense it does that ever time? It has just been apparently decided that such tags are better off not being there. Note, having seen it myself? It wasn't just the anti- side doing it. Plenty of the pro people devolved into calling others -ists and -isms wildly.

Also, getting 10 jerks out of 1000 views isn't a sign of the entire site being hateful. Nor is not getting many readers. No one is required to read your stories just because you write LGBT stuff. Same goes for people not being some sort of -ist for not reading anything. Even if you have the best truck, you won't find much success selling it to the motorcycle crowd.

There is no real evidence in any way that the site nor it's readers are hateful. Apathetic? Maybe to a fair degree, but ultimately? Attention and care is never owed by strangers. 

Re: Is RR audience more homo-/transphobic compared to other similar sites?

#38
I think a lot of people are skirting around your question—not is it a homophobic site, but is it more homophobic than other, comparable sites. And judging by objective facts, (the massive outflux of queer writers to scribblehub, all the people who’ve posted multiple places and consistently received more hate here, the statements by those who run the site themselves claiming they don’t allow the LGBTQ tag because it’s often sexual but then they allow the harem tag), it is more hostile towards that content than a lot of comparable sites. It just is. That isn’t to say it’s hateful or anti-lgbtq in general, it’s just less of a good place for that stuff than others. 
Like, yeah. RoyalRoad has a certain audience and a certain tone of work it promotes. And that makes it inherently less friendly to certain types of content. 

The answer to your question is yes.

That being said, I love it here, and I write mostly pretty gay content. It’s not about -being- queer, it just so happens that most people in my stories are. And I myself have gotten absolutely zero hate for that, but my stories are also not super widely followed. I also get the best, most constructive, and most consistent feedback here of any place I’ve ever posted my work. 

Re: Is RR audience more homo-/transphobic compared to other similar sites?

#39
KittraMcBriar Wrote: Like, yeah. RoyalRoad has a certain audience and a certain tone of work it promotes. And that makes it inherently less friendly to certain types of content.

The problem I take with this argument is that it suggests ScribbleHub, with a higher proportion of LGBT+ writers and readers, must be more heterophobic than Royal Road, that anyplace that isn't literally the best place on the internet for gay people is homophobic by comparison, that having straight people at all is homophobic.  That is, this entire line of argument proves far too much.

Just, no.

Re: Is RR audience more homo-/transphobic compared to other similar sites?

#40

AdirianSoan Wrote:
KittraMcBriar Wrote: Like, yeah. RoyalRoad has a certain audience and a certain tone of work it promotes. And that makes it inherently less friendly to certain types of content.

The problem I take with this argument is that it suggests ScribbleHub, with a higher proportion of LGBT+ writers and readers, must be more heterophobic than Royal Road, that anyplace that isn't literally the best place on the internet for gay people is homophobic by comparison, that having straight people at all is homophobic.  That is, this entire line of argument proves far too much.

Just, no.
AdirianSoan Wrote:
KittraMcBriar Wrote: Like, yeah. RoyalRoad has a certain audience and a certain tone of work it promotes. And that makes it inherently less friendly to certain types of content.

The problem I take with this argument is that it suggests ScribbleHub, with a higher proportion of LGBT+ writers and readers, must be more heterophobic than Royal Road, that anyplace that isn't literally the best place on the internet for gay people is homophobic by comparison, that having straight people at all is homophobic.  That is, this entire line of argument proves far too much.

Just, no.
That’s kind of a twisted extrapolation of what I’ve said and not actually what I’ve said, though. I’m not saying that having a high amount of straight people makes a place homophobic. But it does make it less friendly to that content than a place with a higher amount of queer people would be—as demonstrated by the aforementioned greater amount of hate and low ratings for that kind of content and less support for it by the site itself when it does support other tags that are often associated with sexual content. 


If a place is less friendly to queer content and that results in more vitriol expressed towards queer content than another place, it’s not unfair to say that’s its more phobic of that content than the other place if someone’s asking for a comparison. I specifically said I wouldn’t describe it as a homophobic site, but if someone is asking where homophobia is more of a problem…it’s here. That’s just the truth. 
And yeah, it would also follow that you are more likely to find more vitriol directed at straight people in a more predominately queer space. However, since they’re still in the minority and generally aren’t raised with the entitlement of the assumption that their sexuality is morally superior, that often expresses itself differently and/or not nearly as much. A lot of the time straight content is seen as the default, so pushback when it’s not the default is way more common than people hating on things for being straight. 
In summation, you’re way more likely to encounter homophobia in predominately straight spaces than you are to encounter “Heterophobia” in spaces with higher proportions of queer people than usual. (That being said, I think it’s a lot more reasonable for gay people to fear straight people than the other way around, considering the prevalence of hate crimes and such and the fact that the latter holds greater power in society) 


~anyway~ that’s how I feel about that and if you disagree, you’re welcome to. I just think you’re wrong. 
I’m gonna get back to writing gay stuff now.