Re: Star Wars Episode 8 is trash.

#1
Slightly related, as there are articles on this "serious" fanbase-splitting matter.  Here's my take:

Star Wars Episode 8 made all of episode 7's quest pointless, it was half filler for a pointless sidequest, it made Finn a pointless character, Rey was suddenly way more overpowered for no clear reason, the "bad guy" was just an imao half-good guy, and for goodness' sake, why did they do a small-scale version of the temptation scene?  You know, the scene where the big bad says "You're friends are dying.  Join the Dark Side and they won't be."  They needed a magnifying glass just to show the falling alliance.  Oh, and the unexplained Carrie Poppins was another "splendid" part of the movie.  XD  Before that scene, her only force ability we saw was knowing where Luke was, not flying through space.  Episode 9 explained things, but too little too late.

What do you think about le garbage?  Love to hear everyone's thoughts.

Sincerely, Wile

Re: Star Wars Episode 8 is trash.

#6
I enjoyed it.

Star Wars isn't meant to be taken super serious. You go to chomp over priced popcorn, enjoy the special effects, and watch ships explode. The original trilogy wasn't anything special that hasn't been done before and is basically a standard fantasy story that's been dropped into a scifi setting.

Young man loses everything, follows a space wizard, teams up with a puckish smuggler rogue and his buddy, saves the princess, joins the rag tag rebels against the oppressive empire, trains with another space wizard, goes to rescue his friends, plot twist!, implied training montage, rescues his friends, fights the big bad, saves the galaxy kingdom.

But I've long since decided that a good chunk of the Star Wars fandom is so into the fandom that they wrap around to hating it.

Re: Star Wars Episode 8 is trash.

#7
I would definitely agree Star Wars isn't too serious in general, but Clone Wars... I guess it could be.  What I mean to say is that, while it is mostly action, lazers, and explosions, there are (I'd say) more serious parts than in most Star Wars Content.  The end of that show, for instance, is about the heart-wrenching event of having to move on from death.  Additionally, Clone Wars constantly begged the question of whether a peacekeeper should be a warrior or more of a politician and showed that there is not really a middle ground to right and wrong.  Maybe I'm reaching, but those are the little bits of depth I perceived in Clone Wars that I haven't really found in any Star Wars content outside of that.

Re: Star Wars Episode 8 is trash.

#8
This suddenly reminds me of how, a couple of decades ago, I wrote an online book review of the "Illustrated Screenplay" edition of the final script for Episode 1: The Phantom Menace. 

I had seen that film on the big screen when it first came out, and had been disappointed. A couple of years later (I think), I wrote that review in the form of a letter putatively addressed to George Lucas himself. I presented it to my online readers as: "Here's what I would have said a few years ago if George Lucas had shown me a copy of this screenplay before he started filming the silly thing. I would have warned him about which parts of the plot didn't make any sense, and so on and so forth." As I recall, I wrapped up the letter by saying something encouraging along the lines of "To sum up, George, it sure is a good thing that you bothered to ask my opinion! There are real possibilities here, and if you simply fix all the problems I've called to your attention, then your heavily-revised next draft might have the makings of a good Star Wars movie!" 

(Except, of course, that in the real world it was far too late for my constructive criticism to do him any good.)

Re: Star Wars Episode 8 is trash.

#9
I've largely moved on from Star Wars at this point in my life.  It was there for me when I needed it, I suppose.  I think the new trilogy should be a case study and a warning to future creators how quickly and tragically a franchise can go wrong.  I think what it basically boils down to is this:  There was never really a plan.  Not just for the new trilogy, but for the entire film series.

Lucas caught lightning in a bottle with A New Hope.  He said it himself; that he was basically going to be make this one off sci-fi movie for kids and move on with his life.  Little did he know it was going to set the world on fire and the rest was history.  What happened from then on was basically improvised.  Luke and Leia weren't supposed to be siblings (which makes the incestuous kiss in The Empire Strikes Back so cringe.)  Hell, Vader wasn't even supposed to be Luke's father either.

What we've had for three film series now is basically Lucas and others throwing things to the wall and seeing if it sticks.  It just...doesn't work.  Someone put it best, Lucas was a good worldbuilder, but not a great storyteller.

And the last couple of points I want to make are these:  There's this frustrating theme that the series all mirror each other.  And I can't stand it.  On some level I get it.  History repeats.  There's a cycle at work.  But it's just so heavy handed.

And secondly, I'm sorry, but I just wish they hadn't brought back the original main characters.  Let us remember them as they were.  Let us decide what ultimately happened to them in our own personal head canon.  There was absolutely no risk taking in the newer movies.  

They dug up the original crew and killed them all off.  The new series is depressing, cynical, renders everything that happens in the previous films pointless and just feels hollow.  

We don't get a new cast of characters in a new era (I mean, sort of, but I'm thinking this would be long after all the original characters would have existed).  We don't get any compelling villains, just Galactic Civil War reenactors and a Sith Goth with a creepy fascination for his grandfather.

You need to go in with a plan when you write something as grand and cherished as Star Wars.  You need to take chances, no matter how much of the fanbase you might piss off.  You need to go in new directions.  And for the Force's sake, you've got to be consistent.  You've got to have internal logic.  You've got to close the plot threads.  You've got to play to audience expectations on some level.  You've got to answer most of your own questions that you raise in your story.

Who the hell was Snoke?  We'll never know.  What were the Knights of Ren supposed to be about, who cares?  Did the First Order have any coherent ideology or plan other than genocide for genocide's sake?  I could go on, but you get the point.  The new movies insult the audience's intelligence, displays bad writing and speaks to a larger problem of too many movies lacking any real depth.

The original trilogy was slow paced, and that was a good thing.  It took its time, it was thoughtful, it was even philosophical.  Its time to go back to telling real stories, not cinematic roller coaster rides.

Re: Star Wars Episode 8 is trash.

#11
My personal belief is that Episode 8 felt like something that had way, way more potential than people give it credit for, and that a lot of it was probably altered by Disney corporate to try to salvage a story that was (rightfully) attempting to remove Star Wars from its past and move it into something new.

I at least found it more interesting than Episode 7, which felt like a lazy, slapped together rehash of A New Hope.

If you ask me, they probably should've just made a Thrawn Trilogy.

Re: Star Wars Episode 8 is trash.

#12
I agree that it was a mess.

It had no real idea what it wanted to be, and failed to do anything it set out to do with enough competence to justify the time and effort spent on it, all the while spitting on everything that came before it for no discernible reason. TBH it was a chore to endure.

Personally, I would be happy if they retconed the entire new trilogy as some sort of secret-whispers tier fairy tale exaggeration. Everyone should just pretend it never happened, and that idiot mouse should suck up its greed because it's obvious they diarrhea dumped the extended universe so they didn't have to pay the creators royalties.

It's absolutely, positively, a total alt-universe mess of crap and should be treated as non-canon. Maybe in a more ideal world, ep 10 or whatever would start with something like [zooms in on some old story teller] "And that was the story of the jedi or something" and then everyone in the space saloon calls them stupid, says that's wrong and we start over with the real episode 7.

Hopefully, with less palpatine, star destroyers (I mean death stars, everyone loves the giant space triangles) and incompetence.

Re: Star Wars Episode 8 is trash.

#13
Disliking Star Wars Episode VIII is very normie and pedestrian. Everyone hates whatever the newest Star Wars movies are, and then ten years later they suddenly decide that "actually these are secretly great" and start finding all those little nuggets of greatness they missed when they were younger. It happened with ESB/ROTJ, it happened with the prequels, and it will happen with the sequels too. 

This movie isn't trash. It's not medicore, and it's not even good. It's just flat-out great, with amazing character work, unparalleled visuals, and myth-making fantasy boldness. Get on the Rian Johnson Masterpiece train now, because you'll have wished you boarded it later.

Re: Star Wars Episode 8 is trash.

#14
Oh, I'm sorry, Sir, we don't see this company accepting Episode 8's application in the near future, or, say, in the next 1,000 years.
DrakanFascinating
Over my lifetime, my opinions of each Star Wars episode have been unchanged.  I still think episode 2 is the worst episode (I mean, that line about sand was true poetry XD ), and episode 8 is a very close second on the garbage list.

Re: Star Wars Episode 8 is trash.

#16

Ridgeview Wrote: And the last couple of points I want to make are these:  There's this frustrating theme that the series all mirror each other.  And I can't stand it.  On some level I get it.  History repeats.  There's a cycle at work.  But it's just so heavy handed.

And secondly, I'm sorry, but I just wish they hadn't brought back the original main characters.  Let us remember them as they were.  Let us decide what ultimately happened to them in our own personal head canon.  There was absolutely no risk taking in the newer movies.  

They dug up the original crew and killed them all off.  The new series is depressing, cynical, renders everything that happens in the previous films pointless and just feels hollow.  

We don't get a new cast of characters in a new era (I mean, sort of, but I'm thinking this would be long after all the original characters would have existed).  We don't get any compelling villains, just Galactic Civil War reenactors and a Sith Goth with a creepy fascination for his grandfather.


It did bother me that the "First Order" adversaries in the latest trilogy were basically just the Empire and its Storm Troopers all over again. That bothered me a lot, even before Episode 9 revealed that Emperor Palpatine himself was back in business, so that he could die at the end of that trilogy after being overcome by the combined efforts of a good Jedi and a somewhat-repentant Sith disciple, same as he had been before

In other words, I felt that the major adversaries of the latest trilogy could have been something new and different -- perhaps with Force-using capabilities of some sort, so that life wouldn't be far too easy for the Jedi fighting them, but not just "Palpatine and his goons all over again!" So I sympathize with your point about a heavy-handed emphasis on a never-ending cycle. 

On the other hand, I disagree you with about bringing back a bunch of the same old characters from the original trilogy. I, for one, got a thrill when Harrison Ford/Han Solo suddenly walked onstage in Episode 7. Seeing Chewie again was all right, too. Likewise, I felt it was appropriate to let Leia and Luke each get some time onstage. 

I'm not saying that the older-and-more-cynical version of the Luke Skywalker character was particularly well-written. If you were disappointed by how he came across during Episode 8, I won't try to argue that you shouldn't feel that way. But I am saying that -- in principle -- it was fine and dandy to let Mark Hamill appear onstage to reprise his most famous role as he spoke to young Rey-- who, of course, had taken over the "younger Luke Skywalker" role by being that naive, idealistic, previously untrained Force-user who had grown up on some incredibly obscure desert planet that the rest of the Galaxy normally preferred to ignore, and who was now frantically trying to make up for lost time by getting some emergency Jedi training to make up for all the opportunities she'd missed to be trained at a nice sedate pace throughout her childhood. 

Speaking of training, that leads to me another problem I had with the third trilogy. Two words: "Kylo Ren."

I didn't like him. I didn't love to hate him. I certainly didn't fear him the way I was afraid of Darth Vader when I was just a kid watching the first couple of Star Wars movies. I didn't see him as an "impressive," nor even "interesting," adversary for the good guys to pit themselves against. I wished the whiny brat would just shut up and go away and never bother me again. That was my first impression of the character when I watched Episode 7 on the big screen, and my feelings didn't change much during Episodes 8 and 9.

In that sense, I might say that Kylo Ren was -- or should have been -- the Jar Jar Binks of the third trilogy: The character who got a lot of attention in the first installment of that three-film package, grated on my nerves in doing so (in Jar Jar's case, that was mainly because of his super-thick accent), and then virtually disappeared offstage in the next two installments, with just an obligatory line or two of dialogue in each, because it had belatedly become clear that he wasn't nearly so much of an asset to the storytelling efforts as had previously been hoped. The difference being that while Jar Jar did spent about 99 percent of Episodes 2 and 3 offstage, where he belonged, Kylo Ren did not get booted out of the way in like manner so that Episodes 8 and 9 could stay focused on characters I might actually enjoy seeing again! 

Which brings us to another point -- Kylo Ren's relationship with the major characters of the original trilogy. One of the things I particularly disliked about his backstory was the implication that his parents, Han and Leia, had managed to do a miserable job of raising him. Then, when they trusted his Uncle Luke to take over mentoring him as a Jedi-in-training, the results were abysmal. Which makes all three -- Han, Leia, and Luke -- appear painfully incompetent as parents and teachers. That is not how I want to remember them. As I said before, I thought having those actors reprise their classic roles in the new movies was a good idea in theory; it just wasn't handled very well in practice.

Note: I also had serious trouble with the idea that Han Solo, in Episode 7, would seriously think his son could suddenly be persuaded to reverse his loyalties away from what he'd been doing for the last several years, simply by hearing Han say, in effect: "Your mother and I sure miss you. Why don't you just give up on this Sith nonsense and come back home?" It was no great shock to me when this resulted in Han dying.

Re: Star Wars Episode 8 is trash.

#17
They killed off Admiral Ackbar for no reason... there is no greater sin in than making Ackbar an irrelevant character.

They either made the bad guys a joke or killed them off for cheap laughs, with the exception of Kylo, but even he came off as overly childish.

They condensed the entire star wars universe, the biggest fandom in the world with literal libraries of available lore I to an itty bitty space chase which made no sense even with star wars physics.

Disney screwed up episode 8, what else can be said.