Re: stories that the author delete the content to sell on amazon should be deleted from this site

#1
stories that the author delete the content to sell on amazon should be deleted from this site.
i am fine with an author that put the first book here and the 2nd behind a pay wall, as long as he mentioned it.

i begrudgingly understand authors that take down their stories
but i cant accept an author putting his story on the site, then removing the content and only leaving a , basically an advertisement and the good reviews of the past.

this i just wrong, it feels like high treason of the my expectations as a reader, that i come to read a free story, then get it put behind a paywall, without knowing that this story is going to be removed in the future. and to put salt on injury, they just used our goodwill and reviews as an advertisement to make money on our back.

i think that there should be a policy on this on this site. that a story that its content is removed, is deleted from this site, or something similar.

Re: stories that the author delete the content to sell on amazon should be deleted from this site

#2

I do understand your hurt feelings, and I do feel like leaving a sample of a story on here is a marketing tactic for authors, but.... it is their story that they published for free for enjoyment of others. Since none of us paid into it, I don’t feel like we get much of a say in what the author decides to do with their story (I’m not referring to offering critiques here. Just whether or not they can delete a story, hiatus a story, etc, etc).



emperor Wrote: they just used our goodwill and reviews as an advertisement to make money on our back.

Everyone has to earn their living somehow. Marketing stories is really hard without a former audience. Don’t you want the authors of your favorite stories to be financially stable? Maybe even a bit successful? They’re not making a dime posting it here, and from what I’ve experienced from all the science reports I’ve written in the past... writing is a very heavy time investment. 

Maybe there could be tag that indicates that a story is going to be eventually put on KU and removed partially from the site instead. But this is my own opinion that you can take with a grain of salt.

peoconfused

Re: stories that the author delete the content to sell on amazon should be deleted from this site

#3
I don't agree at all.  Rather I would like the admins to have a "published" section.  If an author takes down his book to publish it with kindle or whatever, then I think it should be moved to another section of the site like the Read->"Complete" section. That way not only would it work as an advertisement of our site's ability to publish fictions, but allow readers to search RR related published fictions.  Amazon is impossible to navigate with after all.  I can't find shit when I try using it.  

Re: stories that the author delete the content to sell on amazon should be deleted from this site

#4
I sorta agree. 

Its a bit disheartening to read a synopsis and click on it only to find out that the story isn't there anymore. Its a bit misleading. Don't get me wrong, I have nothing against authors trying to get more eyes on their work, but there should definitely be an upfront warning somewhere that the story is listed somewhere else (even before the synopsis, so it goes "This work is no longer listed here" -> then synopsis/description), or it needs a tag like "Limited" or "Partially Posted".

Re: stories that the author delete the content to sell on amazon should be deleted from this site

#5
I agree that if an author removes their story from the site, but wants to leave it listed, there should be some sort of notification to potential readers. I like DarkD's idea of having a separate section for such works. However, if that isn't possible then there should at least be a tag indicating the story itself isn't on the site. 

Re: stories that the author delete the content to sell on amazon should be deleted from this site

#6
I think they should be given a "Sample" tag and be de-listed from the rankings altogether (but not searches). ranking lists; a lot of authors will remove most of their story after getting tons of great ratings and get really high up on Best Rated, which is free marketing at the expense of Royal Road itself. Now, the inevitable bad ratings that come will balance that out a little bit, but never enough to justify keeping them on the rankings. There's dozens of stories in the Top 1000 that are basically just samples now and it's cluttering up space for readers to find really good new stories to read.

Re: stories that the author delete the content to sell on amazon should be deleted from this site

#7

Thedude3445 Wrote: I think they should be given a "Sample" tag and be de-listed from the rankings altogether (but not searches). ranking lists; a lot of authors will remove most of their story after getting tons of great ratings and get really high up on Best Rated, which is free marketing at the expense of Royal Road itself. Now, the inevitable bad ratings that come will balance that out a little bit, but never enough to justify keeping them on the rankings. There's dozens of stories in the Top 1000 that are basically just samples now and it's cluttering up space for readers to find really good new stories to read.


This seems like a good compromise since it would let authors use their profile/fictions page for advertising without getting in the way of other authors. The other lists (Trending, Popular This Week, Latest) all take care of themselves, so Best Rated is the only one left. And if removing someone from the rankings isn't technically possible, we could always weigh the sample stories more heavily so they fall to the bottom.

Re: stories that the author delete the content to sell on amazon should be deleted from this site

#8

parkertallan Wrote: there should at least be a tag indicating the story itself isn't on the site.

Thedude3445 Wrote: I think they should be given a "Sample" tag

I agree too, and this feature does make an appearance on sites such as Inkitt, which allows you to tag stories as excerpts. However, Inkitt's PR focuses on your ability to traditionally publish through the site (however low the odds are of achieving that) so the excerpt tag means the 'eventual' publisher can have the first publication rights. There's less demand on RR for a feature like this, so I doubt we'll be seeing it anytime soon.

Re: stories that the author delete the content to sell on amazon should be deleted from this site

#11
Shrug. RR doesn't own rights to the content. The author does. However, RR is an Amazon affiliate and may have to follow certain prescriptions.  Otherwise the owner/author can do whatever he wants with his content. Sell it. remove it, leave it up, burn it, change it. Its  his property. The site reserves the right to show or not show whatever it wants otherwise. When the work is contracted for, The author is restrained by contract legally with the contractor as to where else the content can be displayed and when. - Subject to arbitration, of course. I suspect an Amazon sales agreement would not allow more than a teaser of some sort to be mounted elsewhere, but who knows. I haven't read one.  Could be they don't care, as they are not invested in the authors work.

Re: stories that the author delete the content to sell on amazon should be deleted from this site

#12

Asviloka Wrote: I'm pretty sure authors who start here and later move to amazon are required by RR to leave the sample chapters posted here.

Last time I checked I sure as hell didn't sign any contract when I posted my chapters. In fact, it is quite the opposite as I could force RR to remove any of my content as I am the copyright holder.


The many cases of people moving to Amazon or other avenues should also be proof this isn't a thing. If you want the good terms with KU you need to go exclusive with them, meaning you have to remove the chapters on all other sites - RR included.

Re: stories that the author delete the content to sell on amazon should be deleted from this site

#13

FAHyatt Wrote: I suspect an Amazon sales agreement would not allow more than a teaser of some sort to be mounted elsewhere, but who knows.

If you sign up for Kindle Unlimited this is the case (KU membership requires that your work is exclusive to Amazon) but if you self-publish through Kindle Direct Publishing you can host your work anywhere.

Re: stories that the author delete the content to sell on amazon should be deleted from this site

#15

WolfeLocke Wrote: It is what it is.

At the end of the day, an author has to eat.

then they should not post it here anyway, and go to amazon in the first place

this was in the first place a site for fanfiction of LMS, and many of the old timers like me come here to read cheap fanfiction of writers tat can be barely called an authors, but their imaginative ideas overcome their terrible writing, to make something fun to read.

if you want to make money from stories, then at least have the decency to not cheat your readers by pretending to be free stories


Quote:The site reserves the right to show or not show whatever it wants otherwise.



exactly, if the author dont want to show the full story, or at least have the decency to inform that readers in advance, before they invest time and energy to immerse in that story world, before it is violently cut from them, then the site should reserve the right to delete their story page, reviews and all. (or at least to be filtered in search by default)



you authors forget that this site is not just for authors, but for readers as well.
for us readers this is a fanfiction site for FREE stories of our loved genres that we cant find anywhere else
you authors just dont understand how much it hurts to come home from a difficulty day only to find your favorite free story now behind a paywall

this make me question if i should invest my time in reading stories here if i know a story i have started reading could disappear any moment.
the vest majority of us readers are silent (i was a lurker for something like 7 years), and you very rarely hear our cry of pain when something foul like this happens to us.

how would you authors like it if your top stories only had here only 1% of the current ratings your stories have? 1% of reviews? 1% of comments?
a web novel platform that dont respect its readers will not have readers.
RRL do a lot to earn our trust, but i think this issue also need to have an addressed policy and behavior guidelines.



Re: stories that the author delete the content to sell on amazon should be deleted from this site

#16
emperor Wrote: you authors just dont understand how much it hurts to come home from a difficulty day only to find your favorite free story now behind a paywall

What so it's better if you come back to find your favourite story suddenly deleted?

Seriously, I get it, it's annoying to get invested in something for it to be taken away. The polite thing to do is for authors to be upfront that what's left is only a sample, or that they might move it to Patreon or Amazon (though they might not have planned to do so originally). However, I don't understand why you think it better that they're just straight up deleted. By my reckoning it causes the same issues as the paywall situation you're complaining about.

Re: stories that the author delete the content to sell on amazon should be deleted from this site

#17

Cinn Wrote:
emperor Wrote: you authors just dont understand how much it hurts to come home from a difficulty day only to find your favorite free story now behind a paywall

What so it's better if you come back to find your favourite story suddenly deleted?

Seriously, I get it, it's annoying to get invested in something for it to be taken away. The polite thing to do is for authors to be upfront that what's left is only a sample, or that they might move it to Patreon or Amazon (though they might not have planned to do so originally). However, I don't understand why you think it better that they're just straight up deleted. By my reckoning it causes the same issues as the paywall situation you're complaining about.


why i think it better that they're just straight up deleted? simple:
while in the short term there is no difference between deleting to letting only a sample remain, in the long term there will be less stories that deceive its readers to think they are free stories: authors that look to make money by duping readers to think their stories are free, and to capitalize on the reviews and rating to make advertising for their story, will stop doing that, since they can no longer profit from that. and readers trust will increase.

just to be clear, what i want is that if a story will possibly be removed in the future by the author for any reason, i will know before i start reading the story.
its funny that i even have to argue that people need to act with decency toward others...

Re: stories that the author delete the content to sell on amazon should be deleted from this site

#18

Quote:you authors don't know the pain of coming home from a difficult day at work to find your favorite story is now behind a paywall




Compared to what? How much it hurts after a difficult day at work to log on and find that story you labored into the night to write hasn't even earned a cup of coffee in some kind of tip/support? 

Everything is subjective. There are 0 authors I know that wouldn't give you a copy of a story if you asked. 0. 

"Hey author, I'm a free reader, could I get a copy of STORY please? I'll review it after"

Author with tears in his eyes. "Thank you Saima-san. Please leave a review when done. I have many books. You can have them all." 

Re: stories that the author delete the content to sell on amazon should be deleted from this site

#19
emperor Wrote: for us readers this is a fanfiction site for FREE stories

Websites change over time depending on who uses them. Facebook started as a 'hot or not' site for Harvard students, then Zuck changed it into TheFaceBook (a face book directory for Harvard students), then it became a social network for Harvard students, then the world. RoyalRoad changing from only a place of fanfiction into a place of original fiction and a place for marketing was inevitable and natural. You can't resist change, it's best to go with the flow or find somewhere else to source your stories from. Clinging tightly to 'the way things were' is unhealthy and will only cause you pain and disappointment. 

emperor Wrote: in the long term there will be less stories that deceive its readers to think they are free stories

There should be a way to tag a story as a teaser, as Inkitt does. But saying marketing is deception is a bit of an over the top blanket statement. There are predatory marketing strategies, but including a few free chapters on a web novel hosting sight isn't one of them.

Additionally, the author owes you nothing and they don't need to keep their stories up for free. The only person you're hurting by resenting this process is yourself. Before you get into a long fiction, message the author and ask if they have any plans to move it behind a paywall. If the fiction is marked as complete but only has a few chapters, skip to the final one and look in the author's notes where they'll often say if it's been moved elsewhere. I agree there should be a system to filter out teasers, but advocating that author or RoyalRoad should delete them isn't going to get you anywhere. Be proactive and investigate whether it's going to move somewhere before you get attached so you aren't disappointed down the road.

emperor Wrote: just to be clear, what i want is that if a story will possibly be removed in the future by the author for any reason, i will know before i start reading the story.
its funny that i even have to argue that people need to act with decency toward others...

It's impossible to predict whether a web novel will become successful. It's also difficult to determine what success is. Should everyone who publishes a story on RR say in the description: "If my story reaches 100 reviews, I'll move it to Patreon," or "if my story reaches 100,000 views, I'll move it to Amazon."

No one is disagreeing with you that RR should have a way to tag stories as teasers. But until/ if the feature is introduced, the author doesn't owe you this. You can't control whether these authors act with what you consider 'common decency,' but you can control how you act. If you find a story has been deleted, shrug, wish the author the best, and move on, because getting yourself worked up about it isn't healthy. If you don't want to spare a few dollars to support the authors, then let it go and approach new stories with a healthy sense of detachment. Thousands of years worth of philosophy and psychology says this will make you feel a lot more content.

[Edit - To be clear, I'm not attacking your opinion. In fact, I agree wholeheartedly that a teaser tag should exist. I'm just concerned for you at how angry, disappointed, and sad this is making you. As someone who's been in a position similar to yours, I know how much worse these emotions make you feel and also how much better it feels to just let them go.]

Re: stories that the author delete the content to sell on amazon should be deleted from this site

#20
Change on RR is not 'natural and inevitable.' RR is a private website and a business.

One time, we had a 'Trusted Publisher' privilege level. It was authors that were allowed to by-pass the usual submission protocols in that their new stories were published immediately, and they could publish works they didn't own personally or that appeared elsewhere. Someone decided to abuse the system and post what were basically ads for upcoming books.

They were banned and the 'trusted publisher' tag simply removed from the site.

If you want to market your stories on RR, you can pay the website owners to run an ad on RR for you.

Wing and Kana are supportive of authors. They've worked to make RR friendlier to writers, friendlier to more genres, and increase the visibility of works that otherwise might be overlooked. Their work and that of the community--not 'nature.'

JenifryConan Wrote: You can't control whether these authors act with what you consider 'common decency...'


But they can complain and if the site owners agree, they will hand out temp or perm bans to authors.

RR tries to be a place where readers and authors can both be happy. The relationship is meant to be healthy and based on mutual respect, not entitlement or greed.