Re: Starting a Patreon

I think, and if I'm not mistaken that was the answer to this question before, you can do it right now. Having a Patreon-page set up won't cost you money, it's relatively easy and it will be ready when you want to launch your campaign. Until that you can set a goal, put your chapters up, etc. I have my own Patreon all ready for the patrons, but of course, as I only started this whole "writing a web novel"-thing like a month ago or so, I don't even mention it at my fiction yet. I think first you need to build a general audience and after when you have a couple of hundred followers, you can mention Patreon. 

Re: Starting a Patreon


Bullet pointing a few things here:
  • 500 views should be a per chapter count, and not total. Even then, you might get lucky but don't expect more than a couple patrons. I have an average of well over 1k views per chapter, and I offer three new chapters (almost a month worth) for just 5€. Guess the number of patrons? Yeah, zero. People don't go and spend money at random, it seems.
  • Do set up the page early though. At least for me, it gave me the focus to get ahead and have a nice backlog of chapters. Even with no patrons, that's already a good motivator.
  • This is for A J. Don't sweat over promoting and this and that. Your book is still too short for that. I myself, and a lot of others, just won't read a book unless it's got at least a couple hundred pages already. It's just not worth it. So, for now, just write.
  • Also, I'll add this. I've always posted 3-4k word chapters for my main story. Lately I've been testing another format, with 1k chapters two or three times a day. It works, because it keeps you on top of the new updates. And also works for me because I'm posting as soon as I finish writing, while for the other story I plan it for the long run. Still, if you want, try to split up the chapters and release them more often.
  • ???
  • Profit.
  • It's a dead meme, yes.

Re: Starting a Patreon

If you are using this site for feedback and edits in hopes of later publishing through a traditional publisher, I have some bad news. Most publishers won't touch anything that has been published before in any format. Those that do are literally referred to as Unicorns, and I'll let you guess why that is. 

If you want to use this story to go the traditional route, you are far better at trying other sites/methods for getting feedback and not damage your publishing potential. 

Re: Starting a Patreon

You can read Patreon's site description for a good idea of what they do and suggest, if you are curious. I don't think RR cares if when or what services you subscribe to. Up to you and Patreon's guidelines.

Traditional Publishing
Local foreigner has the basic trend of it.  The source is publisher submission pages, All publishers have websites where they speak about their company, their products and have submission areas where they detail what, how and in what shape they accept submissions. Even though the biggest usually only want  to see agent promoted submissions, agent websites also post their requirements. You will find that a lot of them don't particularly encourage soliciting work to them that is visible to the general public anywhere on the web. There are exceptions, but most authors don't want to be limited to shopping their work to only a few maverick publishers. Most publishers allow for work to be traded for critique and line editing on private sites (sites where the non-member public can't access it).  Its not an issue with having preserved copyright, its a matter of them asking themselves why they would want to try to sell work that is A. already available for free, or B. has already been read by their customers. Unless the publisher feels it is picking up on some widget sized craze, it does not enhance your chances. However you are free to try,  Generally do not expect it to be a boon.  Also, many publisher pages will note a disinterest in what they deem "Trunk stories" (older work that has sat around, or been around in the authors files for a long time)  They want fresh, just writ, modern work, like grocers want fresh veggies.  Not that it shuts off the reprint market, but that's how they are. Sites like Royal Road help authors to develop, and encourage new writers, offer areas to post their trials, and swap what amounts to fan fiction. They note that "rights " are preserved, though that depends on the country of origin,  and some, at least, have processes that can limit boiler-plating or downloading author work.  However this means little to conventional publishers overall. Conventional publishers ideally want work unseen elsewhere, exclusive to their publications - which is why they offer to purchase rights in the first place, to guarantee that. All purchasing publishers will require any posted copy to be removed, even if they agree to print it. Its not a pick and choose deal. To have the best market for a work it needs to be fresh, unseen prior, with available first rights intact, of finished quality, of interest to the editor, and following the theme of the month, or of the publishing house hallmark.

The statistics for new authors is not wonderful, a good estimate would be that only two percent or less are traditionally published, and that less than 20 percent of submissions make even the basis criteria of near perfect grammar, spelling and plot worth. for traditional publishers to even consider.  The best of the best, of the best, etc. Open submissions run to the hundreds, even thousands, every month for even small venues, so they can be, and are, extremely picky. They do not have to do more than dip into the stream flowing through their gates daily, so don't preserve work. Its catch O the Day, all the way. Like buying lotto tickets, this doesn't mean there isn't a market, or a chance, but it is what it is,

Re: Starting a Patreon


Localforeigner Wrote: When should you start a patreon (if at all)? 

What criteria should you judge it by? Followers? Posts? Longevity? Something else?

I had a Patreon for a little over a year (completely unrelated to writing). It varied, but on average, I made roughly $100 a month from it, so I shut it down. My observation was you need to already have a base before opening a Patreon. Having a strong social media following helps enormously. At the time, I was extracting myself from all social media, so it was fairly easy to see declining returns.

If you already have a strong following here and a good social media presence, then Patreon can be good (as far as money is concerned). However, there is another issue with Patreon which is they are known to be capricious. You could spend a huge amount of time building up a business there, and if they get word that you said (or did) something that somebody somewhere found offensive (on any platform at any time, unrelated to Patreon), they can (and will) shut you down without recourse or warning. There is a class action lawsuit forming over this. Patreon itself may cease to exist if it gets bad enough for them.

Re: Starting a Patreon


Quote:A J wrote:

... rant ...

If you look at the higher rated stories, I'm sure you'll notice most of them have a higher number of pages, so longer chapters. This is not universally true, but you won't find ultra-short chapters there. 
I'm sure you know the truth that the message should fit the medium. The places and situations where people read a web novel are different from a traditional paperback. Many will read a chapter or two during their break, during transit or before going to bed. Web novel format has some trouble with letting you mark where you stopped reading, so easily digestible chapters make your novel more accessible on this medium. Around 3000 words is a reading time of about 10 to 15 minutes, hence the recommendation to take that as a guideline. Do note it's a guideline, not a rule and many very successful stories have ignored it in favor of longer chapters.

People here are perfectly willing to read novels that are not completed novels, they're equally happy reading finished novels. For initial publicity, it is recommended to spread out your updates a bit.

What was mentioned before is true - if you want to have a better chance of publishing a novel through traditional channels, it's better not to publish it on other websites. There are alternatives for non-traditional publishing, including setting up your own website and payment model. For that, gaining a following before creating your own platform is beneficial and places like this are good for that initial publicity.

I took a look at your synopsis and I think it does fit quite well with the target audience here, at least better here than most other sites I know. If you want I'll take a look at your first chapter and DM you my opinion, if the opinion of a complete amateur and artistic sell-out such as me has any value in your eyes.

Hope this helps you, Cheers!

Re: Starting a Patreon


A Wrote:
Localforeigner Wrote: If you are using this site for feedback and edits in hopes of later publishing through a traditional publisher, I have some bad news. Most publishers won't touch anything that has been published before in any format. Those that do are literally referred to as Unicorns, and I'll let you guess why that is. 

If you want to use this story to go the traditional route, you are far better at trying other sites/methods for getting feedback and not damage your publishing potential.

And you know that for a fact, do you? Seriously, I'd like to know how you know that. Assuming it's true.

Yup, I do. Because I do my research. 

Google and Youtube are your friends.

Re: Starting a Patreon


A Wrote: Sorry, I was just given a VERY different idea of what this site would be. I get reeeal pissy when people lie to me. If I had known all of this beforehand, I wouldn't have come here in the first place. I blame my source. It's just that I won't be able to get ANY decent feedback on what would be my first draft with the site's popularity system, and I won't know if I should cut anything before sending it in to a publisher. Damn.

Sorry, but you've literally posted one chapter, and your story has only been up for four days. Post consistent, good, and RR-friendly content, and you'll get plenty of feedback. Some of it may be distasteful or crude, but that doesn't seem to be your problem. Right now, you just need more chapters. Even if your story is bad, you'll probably get at least one person telling you everything they disliked before dropping it. 

Some people don't even get 15 follows in a month, but once they get their stride on trending and maybe finish an arc, they'll usually have a small handful of people giving feedback. Now, your story could potentially fall under the radar even then, but right now you don't even know because all you've posted is a singular chapter.

Hope you do well on your publishing journey, AJ.