Re: Just A Concern For Some Of My Fave Authors

#1
In light of Patreon losing their lawsuit with Owen Benjamin and already having to pay out 100+ up front fees of $10,000 per arbitration and opening themselves to 100's if not 1000's of lawsuits due to this ruling I highly suspect by the greed of human nature they will go bankrupt soon and urge anyone using their services to seek alternative platforms to prevent cashflow interruptions.

Obviously I'm not psychic and can't tell the future, but it never hurts to prepare for the worst.

Re: Just A Concern For Some Of My Fave Authors

#4
Basically, Patreon asked the court if they were willing to just tell Owen Benjamin to stop it and give up and the court said no. That does not mean they'll lose. After all, if you're likely to lose there is no use in asking because you'll be denied anyway (there are exceptions, but lets not drag politics into this). It could also mean the court decided to make an example out of the case or to use it as a test case to see if similar cases are feasible in the future.

Just a FYI, if someone says or writes something that is clearly against ToS and then says 'oh it wass just a joke, I didn't think you'd take it so seriously', the platform is still completely within their rights to end their services. So unless he has a seriously good case, he might be heading into a world of trouble.

Since he is, at this point, also banned or suspended from Paypall, Twitter, Facebook and Youtube, Patreon may have a pretty strong case.

Edit:
Looked up a bit more info and I can't imagine they'll lose the case in any decent judicial system. The court may have decided to allow it to go through in order to get at Owen.

Re: Just A Concern For Some Of My Fave Authors

#5
Here is the actual court document for those who are curious.

https://s9503.pcdn.co/wp-content/uploads/2020/07/29.07.2020-Denial-of-Preliminary-Injunction.pdf

Just so you guys know, court documents are public, they can be read by anyone. Much better to read court documents than rely on news sources.

Here's what is going on. Patreon cannot proceed with their lawsuit because they lost this injunction. An injunction was asked to stop the Benjamin and the 72 others in said lawsuit from proceeding with arbitration. Patreon wanted to see this go to court in front of a judge because arbitration would be expensive. However, Patreon couldn't prove it's stance and they have to go into arbitration as stated in their TOS.

Which is funny because many platforms choose arbitration as alternative to litigation(lawsuit) to save money. It's seen as being cheaper. You don't have to involve the court system. It's seen as a good alternative but it does has it's flaws and has bitten Patreon in the butt.

So does that mean that Patreon lost because it's going to have to go into arbitration to settle this? Kind of a loss in that they don't get to proceed with the method that they would've preferred. And this doesn't mean that Benjamin and the 72 people will come out on top. Patreon will just loose a lot of money, but they are the  ones who put the arbitration rule in their TOS.

For anyone who wants an alternative and one that I've been thinking about because I don't have enough readers to warrant a Patreon and I don't like how it works, is Buy Me Ko-fi which is a tip jar basically and I prefer that.

 


Re: Just A Concern For Some Of My Fave Authors

#7

LadyAnder Wrote: Here is the actual court document for those who are curious.

https://s9503.pcdn.co/wp-content/uploads/2020/07/29.07.2020-Denial-of-Preliminary-Injunction.pdf

Just so you guys know, court documents are public, they can be read by anyone. Much better to read court documents than rely on news sources.

Here's what is going on. Patreon cannot proceed with their lawsuit because they lost this injunction. An injunction was asked to stop the Benjamin and the 72 others in said lawsuit from proceeding with arbitration. Patreon wanted to see this go to court in front of a judge because arbitration would be expensive. However, Patreon couldn't prove it's stance and they have to go into arbitration as stated in their TOS.

Which is funny because many platforms choose arbitration as alternative to litigation(lawsuit) to save money. It's seen as being cheaper. You don't have to involve the court system. It's seen as a good alternative but it does has it's flaws and has bitten Patreon in the butt.

So does that mean that Patreon lost because it's going to have to go into arbitration to settle this? Kind of a loss in that they don't get to proceed with the method that they would've preferred. And this doesn't mean that Benjamin and the 72 people will come out on top. Patreon will just loose a lot of money, but they are the  ones who put the arbitration rule in their TOS.

For anyone who wants an alternative and one that I've been thinking about because I don't have enough readers to warrant a Patreon and I don't like how it works, is Buy Me Ko-fi which is a tip jar basically and I prefer that.


I think they are paying out close to 1 mil right now in arbitration with dealing with just Owen's fans, sargon of akkad and milo yinnopolis, and who was the women loren sothern something could likewise have their fans sue since they were kicked before the tos change patreon did and that was the big worry that most people had.  All those fans suing for them would be far more than just the current 1 mil they are paying out.  They all would go to arbitration, which would cost patreon money, they wouldn't have to win anything just drown patreon in arbitration.

I don't think that would happen but a lot of those people are vindictive and were very vocal when those creators were kicked.

Also thanks for the alternative list didn't know about Buy Me Ko-fi before today.

Re: Just A Concern For Some Of My Fave Authors

#8

Balisk Wrote:
LadyAnder Wrote: Here is the actual court document for those who are curious.

https://s9503.pcdn.co/wp-content/uploads/2020/07/29.07.2020-Denial-of-Preliminary-Injunction.pdf

Just so you guys know, court documents are public, they can be read by anyone. Much better to read court documents than rely on news sources.

Here's what is going on. Patreon cannot proceed with their lawsuit because they lost this injunction. An injunction was asked to stop the Benjamin and the 72 others in said lawsuit from proceeding with arbitration. Patreon wanted to see this go to court in front of a judge because arbitration would be expensive. However, Patreon couldn't prove it's stance and they have to go into arbitration as stated in their TOS.

Which is funny because many platforms choose arbitration as alternative to litigation(lawsuit) to save money. It's seen as being cheaper. You don't have to involve the court system. It's seen as a good alternative but it does has it's flaws and has bitten Patreon in the butt.

So does that mean that Patreon lost because it's going to have to go into arbitration to settle this? Kind of a loss in that they don't get to proceed with the method that they would've preferred. And this doesn't mean that Benjamin and the 72 people will come out on top. Patreon will just loose a lot of money, but they are the  ones who put the arbitration rule in their TOS.

For anyone who wants an alternative and one that I've been thinking about because I don't have enough readers to warrant a Patreon and I don't like how it works, is Buy Me Ko-fi which is a tip jar basically and I prefer that.


I think they are paying out close to 1 mil right now in arbitration with dealing with just Owen's fans, sargon of akkad and milo yinnopolis, and who was the women loren sothern something could likewise have their fans sue since they were kicked before the tos change patreon did and that was the big worry that most people had.  All those fans suing for them would be far more than just the current 1 mil they are paying out.  They all would go to arbitration, which would cost patreon money, they wouldn't have to win anything just drown patreon in arbitration.

I don't think that would happen but a lot of those people are vindictive and were very vocal when those creators were kicked.

Also thanks for the alternative list didn't know about Buy Me Ko-fi before today.

They changed their terms of service at the last minute to stop Owen's fans from suing (after Owen's fans notified them that they intended to sue).  Understandably, the Court took a dim view on that.  The terms of service have been updated (saying you can't sue in this way) since January.  Milo and Sargon's fans have been put on notice for long enough that I doubt there will be a repeat of this (I.e. next time it happens the actions will get dismissed and the fans suing will have to pay the fees).

Re: Just A Concern For Some Of My Fave Authors

#10

LadyAnder Wrote: I'm surprised about how many people don't know about Buy Me Ko-fi. I think just because Patreon drowned out any sort of alternative because it seems like the best because so many creators use it.

Oh and I completely forgot about Sponsus which is just another version of Patreon without it being Patreon.

Ko-Fi is like a tip jar, the modern version of Paypal donation buttons without the tricky issues behind Paypal. It doesn't serve quite the same purpose, though I have tipped artists a few times before. I even got a quick commission out of one once.