Re: Love, Fantasies, and Lust. Society or Ingrained since childhood?

#1
I've watched a video on youtube today with the title: The Five Most Desirable Male Entities Used in Female Pornography | Jordan B Peterson
It's a short video of 3 mins taken from a much longer topic of discussion, but basically, he talks about the differences between men and women's pornography preferences.
He describes the 5 most searched male entities searched on the internet: Vampire, Werewolves, Surgeon, Billionaire and Pirate.

I've read some of the comments of the video and looked at the trailers of Fifty Shades of Grey (for research purpose), and I think I disagree with most people on their interpretation of why women lust after the alpha male.
Because the same applies to men, we (most) desire women who correspond to the blonde with blue eyes image society put in front of our eyes.
Now, I don't say we all fall victim to this, or that society is responsible for the origin of that unconscious desire in us. But a lot of people fall into this trap, and the only partner they seek is one that corresponds to the criteria fabricated by others.

I've mentioned the origin, and the fact that I don't agree with most people view on why women crave for the alpha male stereotype.
I think both are linked, in the sense that our upbringing creates a longing in us, something we lack, or fear of losing. This is something that we have no control over, something that exists yet is invisible to our eyes most of the day, only at night does this longing become more active in our mind, but without revealing itself.

I believe this is what we desire in others, not their appearance or personality, but the feeling they can give us. The ability to touch ever so slightly that craving inside of us.
Love for another person is a reflection of that desire that can be fulfilled. A reflection of a what we seek in the other person, but without taking into account all the other aspects existing in the one we love.

To give it some perspective, I believe that what women desire when they search for men, without realising it, isn't about who the male is or what he has, but how he can make them feel like.
If they see a possibility of the alpha male being able to apply pressure to that craving, that insecurity or longing inside of them, then they will fall for him. Completely ignoring the 99% other elements of his personality.
Because that's love, because that's the kind of partner they want.

Maybe that love will not work in the long run, maybe the family or her rational mind will make the choice of not dating him. But she'll be deadly attracted to that kind of male.

It's the same for men. For example, in my case, my first girlfriend was a simple girl that reflected one of my craving: being understood.
I did not care for the rest of her personality, I did not care about what kind of girl she was, I fell in love because she tried to understand me, and admired me for who I was.

I've made an argument about upbringing creating a longing, but I've also blamed society for desirable stereotypes, I'll explain why.
It's pretty simple. Not everyone can have a clear vision of what we want. Some are more influenced by what they see or hear compared to others.
Stereotypes work for a majority of society, we may not like them, idealise them, but we definitely lust after them.
Today, a majority of people slept with a partner they were not really interested in, either for his appearance or because they were in heat.

This creates an issue where we can only pay attention to a person's appearance to momentarily satisfy the loneliness inside of us. However, it also twists our perspective of what we want, and create another craving: the sexy girl that can arouse us.
Ever heard of a man cheating the woman he loves (reflect what he longs for) for a young, pretty girl (lust after appearance), well upbringing creates one craving, society made another.

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So what do you think of my theory on fantasies and their origin, feel free to leave a comment to share your opinion.
Also, did you watch/read fifty shades of grey, if yes, what did you feel?




Re: Love, Fantasies, and Lust. Society or Ingrained since childhood?

#2
Umm...

Okay, well. My guess is romantic interest usually revolves around seeing something as attractive or expectation of attraction. Meaning we make up (somewhat arbitrary at times) criteria for what we expect would be “attractive”. This is obviously tied to the societal cultures we are exposed to. I can say that people are attracted to things that stand out in some way (as long as it’s in a good way) so that people that exceed some kind of expectation of ours are more attractive. This mostly means that things we perceive as “rare” are more attractive. (Genetic diversity and all that)

So when it comes to fantasies my guess would be when an expectation is created of something being attractive which is unrealistic in the real world or uncommon, exotic, or somehow beyond our reach that thing is made attractive for being “rare” (since it won’t happen in real world, or the way it does in the real world doesn’t live up to the fantasies).

I would say this effect inflates how “attractive” things seem to us, but that there is always a kernel of something that was attractive to us to begin with. Fantasies might have blown that thing wildly out of proportion but I don’t they weren’t there to begin with at all.

So rather than saying they are completely a product of our culture and surroundings influencing us I would say they originate as something that arises normally from us and concentrating them into a cultural phenomenon just makes them become larger than they otherwise would be if they hadn’t been shared between people. Such things no doubt will always exist, but what form they take could change easily if you wiped all cultural influences away and started from scratch.

Re: Love, Fantasies, and Lust. Society or Ingrained since childhood?

#3
Well, many women find alpha men attractive. Though, we don't evaluate our prospective mates on a single criteria alone. It is much much more complex. Sure, if you criteria is "watching porn" then there are what exactly they want but that doesn't those are what they actually want to be with.

Also, society is also a reflection of the people who live in it. These desires and fantasies doesn't come out of nowhere. Where do they come from? From the people themselves. These kind of things have been there since prehistory, or even since the beginning of humanity.

And since you are talking about porn, we are venturing into fantasies. We aren't talking about what makes a great life partner, or what makes good husband/wife, or what makes us happy or any of the practical side of relationship. Porn is about getting us aroused. A picture of a woman in vomit encrusted clothes changing the baby's dirty diapers or a man in dirty overalls picking up dog poo is not going to be arousing (to most people). If you go into porn to look for important life lessons, you are sadly looking at the wrong place.

And you are also talking about happiness. The very elusive thing that no one knows how to achieve. And no. Finding the perfect partner isn't going to help mainly because there is no such thing as perfect partner and the fact that what we want and need constantly changes (and often are conflicting each other). Also, this tends to make us want more and more until we become bottomless black hole that can never be filled, so even if the perfect person does appear, you are unlikely to be satisfied for long.

My answer is both. It is ingrained in our biology and also influenced by the society.