Experimental new voting system

New system, who this?

The ratings as they are now address a unique set of questions that are hard to represent by any other system. However, based on the feedback gathered throughout the years we have concluded that there is a place to improve the ranking system, or introduce another one with different criteria.

In order to try that, we will do a test run of a voting system. As the name suggests this system will be based on votes for a fiction given by the users. The new voting system might replace one of the existing lists, keep existing as a separate list, or be removed entirely once we have more data.

How does it work?

It has been said above as well, but just to repeat: this is an experimental system. It might change every hour, day, or week. It is also possible that the results gathered from this test will not line up with the expectation. In that case, it is possible that it will be reworked or shelved. It is also possible that the system will work well but not enough to replace any existing rankings, in which case we might add it as another way to get visibility.

For now, the system will work alongside the existing rating/review system. On every fiction page and every chapter of a fiction there will be a vote button. By pressing this button, you vote for the fiction. In this case, a vote expresses that you liked the fiction enough that it should be on the multiple ranking lists available on Royal Road. 

UPDATE: For clarity, you can only vote for each fiction once every 2 weeks. The button on the chapter page does not vote on the individual chapter, and is only there for convenience.

Votes have a limited lifespan of about 2 weeks to begin with, after which they expire and the readers will need to vote again for it to count; this should create a dynamic environment.

Separate ranking list.

For the test period, there will be a separate ranking list available for everyone to see. This ranking is detached from the existing ranking list in every way possible so the effects of the new system can be seen clearly and the results can also be compared to the current review and rating-based ranking system.

The rankings are sorted based on the number of votes gained in the past 2 weeks and will be visible in a separate tab as well as on the front page of Royal Road.


We hope the system will be received well and that the results stack up to the expectations we had when developing it. The new, experimental rankings created by the system might bring some unexpected results as well. Keep an eye out if there are any stories you did not read yet, perhaps there is something that catches your eye!

UPDATE: Do not post chapters just to gather votes. We'll be removing all such chapters going forward, as it's filling up people's feed with noise. It's okay to ask for views in author's notes, it's not okay to make chapters just for it. Please have some respect for the readers.

UPDATE 5 July 2021

Looking at the results and additional statistics we've collected, we are removing Hot and the voting system - it's been showing up some interesting results, but ultimately the result is so close to a list simply sorted by unique views that it's not worth keeping a list that achieves more or less the same, but at the same time giving more reason to cheat or nag the readers to authors.

That is not to say that the result is useless. We've been looking at the collected data and are working on a new list that gives a more unique slice of the fictions on the site, primarily aimed at stories that are already out of Trending, but not large enough to show up on Best Rated or Popular This Week. It's a difficult task due to the nature of the numbers involved (Trending is giving massive boosts in views, and Best Rated gives massive boosts in most other stats, so it's difficult to work out something that's not biased towards one of these lists) but we are confident that we have reached a good starting point for this and will be able to have something out soon.

We are also considering adding a new list alongside Popular This Week which ranks fictions based on the unique views rather than the total accumulated views. This would put popular stories with fast releases at a disadvantage, so we do not want to simply replace Popular This Week with such a list, but it would result in something much closer to Hot.

Log in to Comment

Comments(150)

Sounds interesting! Thanks for all your work on this!

Looks nice! Can't wait to vote on my favorite fictions and see what pops up. 

Go forth and VOTE! 

Wouldn´t it be better to limit the number of possible votes per day/week? Sure, after two weeks my vote is gone, but I still could vote for a dozen stories, maybe even for year old stories. When it would be limited it would mean way more.

    But will you be going to years old stories you have already read and forgotten about to vote every 2 weeks? When everyone has infinite votes, everything balances out and choice paralysis is a non-issue.

    Wing
    Admin

    That was a consideration - but we wanted to see the results unlimited first, and play with the data based on that. 

      It might be smart to create a popup "your vote has expired" the first and second time someone opens a chapter of a story where their vote expired. Then authors will have less need to ask for votes. 

    But this would mean that you'll have to choose between fictions you like right? This way it would give a more accurate representation of what people are actually reading. If 200 people are reading old fiction X but 1000 are reading new trending Y, Y would still be way higher and then it should not matter. 

      Fundamentally that just makes the list insular to stories that are actively asking for the votes. While in a sense more accurate it'll still limit the possible stories you can 'support' in the system. I mean while it won't be a problem for people that follow a couple stories they hold as deserving a vote. What about when you have more stories than the maxinum votes? Vote based on novelty? It doesn't really detract from the voting system to have the possibility to vote on unlimited stories.

      The system wouldn't even have a problem with older stories, it's an concurrent engagement system. Unless large amounts of users decide to manipulate the system, as is a problem in any system. This is pretty good simultaneously ranking system with the review and trending system, it follows how engaged people are with stuff they are reading.

      I really hope there'll be a complete list of votes, not just the top most voted fics.

A bit of feedback I could already give: it might be useful to time-restrict you to X votes (for example, 10 votes per day, or more, or less, or over different periods) - this will make what you vote for more valuable, and you can't just vote for everything.

    kanadaj
    Admin

    See Wing's answer above. Time restricted votes were considered and are still considered, but first we want to see what it looks like without such a limit.

Are the votes weighted based on release rate? E.g., I could see that a fiction with frequent shorter releases would have a secular vote advantage against a fiction with uncommon longer releases, mutatis mutandis. 

I accidentally voted for a book I was going back to reread. Then I had to do a double take with "wait, what did I just vote on?"

 

Like the idea overall so far. Thanks!

Sounds like a good idea!

\(^^)/

 

 

Not a fan of voting systems like this, especially because it's annoying when authors beg for votes, but I'll wait and see how it turns out

I hope this stays as an addition and does not end up replacing rating scores. Being able to see popularity and rating for any given story as separate metrics is something I don't want to lose.

Yeah, I'm not hugely enamored of this.

1. It just reproduces the popular listing.  An "active voting base" is roughly synonymous with an active reader base.  Rapidly releasing stories already are advantaged in getting more eyeball time even if actual word count or rating isn't as high as other fictions.

2. It incentivizes vote-begging.  Ratings begging is bad enough, but you mostly only see that with early fictions.  A vote system like this means that e-begging for votes every release is rewarded.

3. It doesn't really do much to knock inactive fictions off of their front-page throne.  I love Mother of Learning as much as anyone else, but I'm not sure it should be sitting in the same bucket as active fictions.  If anything, the "Complete" tag should retire a fiction out of the normal front page rating competition and put it into its own bucket with other Completed fics.

    kanadaj
    Admin

    There are two important distinctions compared to Popular this Week:

    1. It only allows one vote per user. On the other hand, Popular this Week is more advantageous to daily and batch releases.

    2. It rewards active readers, as opposed to passive readers.

    I do understand the issue with #2 though, and will be kept in mind once we decide where to go from here.

    As for completed fictions not being on the homepage, I very much disagree - it's essentially the first page any new user sees, and where people first go to look for things to read when they find the website. In this sense, it makes absolutely no sense to remove completed works from best rated.

    Also, this list isn't meant to alleviate any of that. It's an experiment, because while we can brainstorm this day and night, realistically it's impossible to accurately tell how such a system would turn out in practice. You can have a general idea, but we first and foremost want to see what happens over the next 2 weeks. Worst case, we have more data and we will remove the list completely. Best case, we have something new, or something that can replace one of the existing lists with something more reliable.

      1, 2.  Oh, I'm talking about the eyes:votes conversion.  There's always a conversion ratio, even with a lower reader interaction conversion, sheer number of releases is going to drown people with a better ratio.  I release once a week.  That ratio needs to be 3x better than someone who releases 3x/week, and...it probably isn't.  Normal conversion ratios tend have like a 30% variance or something like that (it's been a looong time since I had marketing statistics class), not 300%.

      3. Honestly I've always felt that Completed should get its own bucket on the front page.  Make it a completely separate "competition" than active fics.  MoL and Threadbare (...which is now uncompleted I guess but) and others feel like they ought to be up at the top as some sort of shining example of "this is what we at RR aspire to," with the competition down below.

      Of course I'm assuming approximately equivalent eyes, whiiich may not be a good assumption, but at the same time, eyes more or less ranks popular I think so...???  I guess we'll find out, but I have doubts.

So this is the popular this week list but the author can and will beg for the votes?

Too unreliable compared to static ratings. As a unique system it would throw the authors under the bus and foster an even more "begging" atmosphere. 

How does this not make the biggest authors bigger and the smallest authors smaller? Alright, sure, there's no helping the smallest authors, but what about those behind stories like Eagle's Flight and Epilogue? Two stories that are incredibly small compared to most on the best ranked list, yet they've managed to make a home for themselves on it due to their high quality and genuine love from the readers. They're not stories spamming out popular litrpg/xianxia chapters every single week begging for votes.

And what about completed stories? How are completed stories going to have any chance of competing when they're not releasing new chapters every 2 weeks at least to beg for new votes?

This system would be great if it was meant to replace popular weekly, but I fail to see how it's doing anything for rankings aside from turning it into a generic popularity contest where actually being the best ranked doesn't matter and only spamming chapters and harassing readers matters with a popular genre.

You guys have been on a great roll with new features, and I feel guilty for commenting negatively on this one without commenting positively on those others when you absolutely deserved praise for them, but this one has made me, as the kids say, "le epic triggered."

The only real problem with Best Ranked right now is that Mother of Learning is on it, and that's only because it feels shitty to see a non-RR story that had tens of thousands of readers gained from over a decade of activity dominate the list over actual RR originals. 

    kanadaj
    Admin

    I keep saying this: this is mainly an experiment to see what this list will actually do, before we actually consider if/what it should replace. Once we have actual numbers and results, then we can sit down and decide whether this is something we want to keep or something we want to do away with. But realistically, it's impossible to know how exactly this will turn out without actually doing it - hence the experiment.

      It's impossible to know how this is going to turn out? It's already turned out exactly as expected within an hour. The popular authors with big, ongoing series (Salvos and Runesmith) asking their readers for votes, and now they're on the top of the list. All they have to do is do this every 2 weeks. Completed stories literally have zero chance. Small stories with small audiences that are excellently written with high ratings have no chance. This is extremely obvious and should be impossible to not expect.

      Again, great system for popular weekly. If you want to replace popular weekly with this then I think that's an amazing idea and way better than just going off of total views.

      But best ranked? I genuinely don't understand how anybody could expect this to turn out in any other way.

      kanadaj
      Admin

      Sure, and maybe that's what it will be. Though that said, there is a number of people already complaining about authors begging for votes...

      If the result is exactly as popular this week though, there is no point to making it active participation based. It might also line up with some proposed changes to popular this week, in which case we are better off doing those. At the end of the day, the more data I have the better.

      I just don't want to see completed and smaller stories hurt by this. Change best rated however you want, but try to make it as fair as possible instead of just being a blatant popularity contest that's going to annoy readers.

      Well, I don't remember ever being on popular this week but now I ended up in first spot, works for me

      I've gotta agree with Ace on this. Kuro, not to knock your story (I'm up-to-date), but your most recent chapter as of this response is literally "Vote for The Runesmith!". You've proved Ace's point. 

      My take on this feature is that right now, with authors who release fequently begging for votes, this feature is a worse Popular This Week. The voting system is inherently biased to frequent publications, or at least as it stands, bi-weekly or more frequent publications that line up with the vote cycles. It pushes down stories that publish less frequently that are not yet complete. 

      IMO this system would be best as a full replacement/update for Popular This Week, just without the voting aspect. Base it off of quantity of content published and viewed, or something better, but take the voting out of it. Seeing respected authors beg for votes just feels disgusting. 

      Think its a bit different than the current popular this week system. It doesn't take into account how many chapters the author spams as its just one vote. So can't use volume of upates to get into popular this week. It turns from a stat contest into a popularity contest, which is better , I have no idea lol 

      Whatever is chosen please make it so all stories are at least attempted to be shown at some point, even if the voting thing is decided to become a permanent feature. Maybe give "Top voted" its own spot while continuing to use the other way that came before it. Who says you have to find the answer to doing one thing one way? Sometimes a combo of different things is a better answer. Old+new.

      And please dear god don't be like Wattpad where books are chosen by a god damn AI...

       

      @kanadaj - I love this site, I the webmasters I do not love the vote system even if it's on a trial basus. I've been online a long time 20+ years and seen sites go to hell over a number of things and every single writing sitge that adds in any voting systen seems to be on a downward sloap after adding it. Please,  consider keeping things K.I.S.S.

    I have to agree with Ace Arriande that the disadvantages of this system for finished stories are very obvious. Unfortunately, I also have no idea how to fix these obvious disadvantages of a voting system. Well, we will see how this develops.

I don't understand, won't this just make the most popular fictions appear twice on the homepage?

    yes, that's exactly what will happen and that's exactly what happened. Authors with a huge audience immediately win first places. Now you can see the same books in popular this week, in popular in general, and actually in the new popularity list.

      Not sure this is precisely true. Out of the 9 fictions I see on the top of this vote system, 4 are not on the front page for 'most popular this week'. So 44.44% of the stories on the list are different. And the feature hasn't even been up for half a day yet. After the first 2-week-period, it will be interesting to see if it becomes more similar to the 'most popular this week' list or less so. 

How does an author see how many Votes their story has?

While I agree with some of the comments about it just putting more focus on the already popular stories I think the data could be interesting and will probably cast light on some stories that gets a bit less attentions.

It would be nice if you could press the vote button as much as you like instead of having to wait 2 weeks, as it is now if an author release a chapter roughly every week and one of the chapters come out maybe 5 hours before there have been exactly 2 weeks since the chapter 2 weeks ago, he may lose a lot of votes over the week.

I assume you could do something like topwebfiction where voting again just refreshes the vote.

    Easy solution, they should inmop get rid of the stupid vote system. It's just going to get some people focused on numbers and popularity instead of actually writing well. O=Probabbly really discouraging for newbies too.

     

I like it :) But I don't think it can ever completely replace the star rating, obviously. Top Rated will still be a list by itself 

I do not like this new voting system for one can only vote up and not down,  if hit it by mistake like I did for one can not take it of...

Plus it's pointless already got good system why add another.

Thanks for good site.

I am mostly concerned about the 2 weeks time period that the votes last. The algorithms you use already incentivize authors to post many small chapters, and I feel that this system will only exacerbate that. Making the vote only last 2 weeks also has the effect of basically asking authors to post at least once every two weeks.

If this system is supposed to replace the stars system, I think it should last indefinitely. If it is supposed to make the 'hot' rankings better, I guess it could be a good system, although I would make the votes last one month instead. It would also reduce vote begging.

What I mostly like to see is a better system for long-term ranking, so I can more easily look for fictions that were completed a long time ago. I guess you could use nr of likes for that, or you could allow us to sort by different statistics.

    kanadaj
    Admin

    Then better come up with a better system for long-term ranking because I've literally spent months on that with no luck. :/

      Really a difficult problem.

      Could you think about that the user himself defines the time interval from which votes should count for the rating?
      So not only the length of the time interval but also its position on the timeline.
      The whole thing could then be weighted (proportionally or antiproportionally) with the number of words published in this interval (i.e. freely selectable weighting for the user).

      But maybe this is too complicated to use? I actually don't like it when ratings have such static parameters like this 2 weeks. Could you think about a kind of expert mode for RR where the handling is more complicated but offers much more freedom? That way the developers don't have to worry about overwhelming new users of the site.

      @kanadaj How about doing what you're doing, but also offer (as you can) an INDEX of every book on the website, and allow writers to add their book to this index every time they make a new book? Make the index easy to find on the main page of RR and in the available drop-down lists throughout the site. That could help. Now it's not a ranking system but with a search in place in the Index, writes might get a little more exposure. and if nuts like me they'd probably make a tab of every single book on the site... to read them all. lol. That is if there isn't an index already?

      Maybie the idea is stupid.. *shrugs*

       

      kanadaj
      Admin

      @darkocean It's called "Advanced Search" and we already offer it. It contains every single fiction on the website. Best Rated too, for that matter.

      I am sorry if I'm butting in with an out of place comment, @kanadaj, but might I suggest simply reworking the algorithm for the ranking. The main complaint many have of the current system is how big of an influence bad ratings have on the ranking compared to a positive one. I believe, although I don't know the exact formula, that it involves the rating average at some point. Now, I am no mathematician but from my little experience with statistics, I can say that the average is easily influenced by extreme values. My suggestion would be to use the median from the ratings. Like that, what influences the end-rating is the number of "same-ratings" a story has. If a work has 10x 5-stars and 3x 0.5-stars, it would come out as a 5-star rating, instead of 3.96. If a work has 10x 0.5-stars and 3x 5-stars, it would have a rating of 0.5 instead of 1.5. These, of course, are extreme examples but I do believe a median calculation would represent better the overall reader vote for a better long-term ranking. Maybe the overall rating of the work has little influence on its ranking, but from my observations, this does not seem to be the case. But maybe you have already tested a version of the median-including algorithm and it does not work... 

      kanadaj
      Admin

      @Ariana Vivoni You know, I'm kind of sick and tired of explaining this over and over. You can't rank fictions over a median, if for nothing else then for the simple fact that there are only 10 median numbers inside the rating system, and 40+k fictions. So you have to rank the ~20k fictions with a median of 5 based on something. So you look at each individual fiction, compare them based on their actual ratings - this one has 1 more 5 stars than the other one but all the same for the rest? This goes higher. You keep doing that and... voila, you've just calculated the rank by average rating.

There really does need to be a way to prevent the same story from appearing multiple times on Royal Road's home page. Limited and valuable space is wasted when the same story is advertised more than once.

And again -- if I may ask. How can we see how many Votes our own story has?❤

Sounds a lot like the power system from Qidian. Hopefully it goes better than "go to whichever story is most popular and vote for that".

From a user's perspective the front page is getting a bit crowded.

    Yes. I have to scroll down a bunch just to get to my usual stuff. This experimental/beta boxes keep showing the same things again and again, and if I've not clicked on it the first 10 times, I definitely won't the next 100, it's a bit of a waste of such a prominent location (at the top of all lists)

Will we be able to see a full 50-100 fiction list of the "Hot" fictions, or will it just remain the top 9? At this point, it seems like the system will just promote popular series that update frequently or the ones that already beg for TopWebFiction clout. Also, I think "Best Rated" and "Popular this Week" deserve spots at the top of the page much more than experimental or beta content suggestions, as they reflect the site much better. Looks interesting, though. Already voted for my entire following list!

Even if this ends up being duplicative of other systems, I think it's great that staff are trying this out.  More data is always a good thing.

That said, I think it's pretty likely that voting ends up essentially producing the same list that Popular would, if Popular only counted one access per person in a two-week period.  Which... seems like a more useful measure to me, in that the current system seems to privilege frequent short updates a bit more than might be wanted.

I would also hope that staff holds on to all of the data, even if not all of it is being used at the moment. 

Keeping track of votes even after votes refresh means you could have a variety of lists, like one list that ranks stories by how many readers voted at least once for it during the last year (which would be mostly completed stories and the perennials) alongside another list that ranks stories by how many readers voted for it during the last two weeks (which would be more of a 'currently popular' list).

Honestly, even if this turns out duplicative of lists based on passive tracking, there's an argument that an active voting system helps with reader engagement.  I'm probably not the only reader who's wished for the equivalent of a 'Thumbs up' button at the end of a chapter, to indicate that you liked the chapter without spamming another "TFTC!" comment.

I think another great idea heard was to be able to give a star rating to each chapter, in addion to the story as a whole and let that average be its rating. It would also work as good feedbak for the writer.

    I like this idea, but it could be pretty expensive, as that would require either a creative solution from a coding point of view, or a rather large amount of memory used just from the sheer number of chapters on the site.

      You don't have to generate it on button press. Can do the average weekly or daily to spread the load out for all stories. Many also would get no updated votes in a period, thus not require re-calculation.

This is a cool idea; I hope it goes well! More info/data, the better! I know it's just starting, so of course you'll see how it goes. I wonder if this voting system could rather work more to help and uplift smaller authors/readers, though? So far it seems that books that were already pretty popular are now the ones trending; maybe there can be voting for smaller authors (>1000 readers, for example) and once that bar's passed, the book then isn't able to be voted on, or there can be two votes--one for the big, popular books, and one for 'hidden gems' or something to encourage readers to look at works that haven't yet exploded in popularity (or to implement a 'hidden gem' feature in general)? I dunno--I do like the idea to incentivize active readers though! Good luck with this.

I accidentally voted for one I did not mean to, but I see no way to "unvote".

Nice. I like experiments.

So that means than author must now space make sure that every new chapter comes exactly two weeks after another one ? Seems a bit excessive. 

Would it not be better if readers could renew their votes for a period two or three days, where their votes are still valid. That way authors can have it more easy. The way I understand it if you post a chapter every week, and half your readers voted two weeks ago, and God forbid this week you post your chapter two hour too early, then you won't get any votes because all your readers have already voted less than two weeks ago mins on hour. 

Would mean you'd get 2/3 of the expected votes. 

Looks interesting!

Looks interesting!

it's a nice idea in the right direction. for a long time now, rating had become meaningless. 4 which should be considered a good score used to actually hurt the story.
but i fear that it would become just a union of popular this week and most followed stories.

anyways, what do you think about disabling ratings for a while like a month or so(like it's been done for some novels). i think it would break the habit of people rating novels as if they were voting for them. 

More data means better decisions and future improvements! I think that the most interesting piece of data will be the vote/view ratio. I cannot predict how that ratio might evolve over these next two weeks, but my intuition suggests that that benchmark will be insightful. I have no suggestions about how to use said data at this point.

Nice idea. Not entirely sure it will work, but I think one of RR's strengths is the amount of exposure it can give to a multitude of different stories. And this new voting system seems like it might allow for a different approach to 'trending', 'best rated' and 'most popular' that gives even more exposure to stories of various different genres. 

It might not work out, but thanks for trying something new and maybe making this site even better!

Note: I haven't read preceding comments.

I think this system would best work if we could always vote and that would just update the lifespan of the vote metric good that story.

I feel that this behavior captures the sentiment you're trying to teach

    Whoops, phone and alcohol, lol.

    ... the sentiment you're trying to track. That of a combination of interest and preference in a story.

    For example of I'm reading something (right now) then I'm giving it metric for it's popularity. But if I'm only reading to give it a fair chance then that metric isn't [true]. But if I read and vote then it is.

    But, I'm not familiar with the exact mechanism of this system so you could already be doing this and my comments are wasted anyway.

    But, I'll try to use it in this fashion and see what happens. More lists is always better 😉.

I guess this could encourage authors that release chapters once a month to consider doing it biweekly. Not sure if that's a good or bad thing as that could decrease not only chapter length but also quality.

This System is a good one, but for me, a writer that updates when I finish a chapter rather than have a full backlog, it's detrimental as I will never have enough viewers to last two weeks and keep it on the top charts. Even if I only have a combined viewership in the first hundred.

 

As I've said elsewhere, I reeeeally don't like the voting-based system because it forces authors to beg for votes for exposure, and it has inherent biases towards frequent releases and larger fictions.

My main point in this response is to request that in the homepage layout, this list be swapped with the Top Rated list. That list is a much better representation of the best that RR has to offer, whereas this list has already turned into mostly LitRPG/xianxia power fantasies. Not to knock either of those formats, I love them, but RR has a lot more to offer besides them. If this feature gets kept, I really don't want it to be the first thing new readers see instead of the Top Rated. 

I don't like beging, be it votes, review or ratings. Guess I'll just stay away from this ladder. ^^

But it is nice to see new features added. As an author i'd rather see extreme ranking requiring a review rather than this voting system. 
I have no opinion as a reader, i usually use the search bar and the recent update, more than the best rating. 

 

Keep up the good work, even if do not like this feature, it shows there are people trying to make the site better, this is good. 

Hmmm.  Sounds interesting honestly.  Still new to the site, so I'm fond of trying new things added!  Everything is still somewhat new to me, after all. X]

But 2 weeks is just remaking trending fictions.

Stupid idea: People with more reputation has more vauable votes.

 

     Pros:

Gives reputation more use.

More trusted answeres.

     Cons:

May make people feel that there vote is useless.

May cause rampent alt accuent use to inflate their own fiction..

I just got an alert (nearly two hours ago) about voting dummy chapters. What gives? Is it a server wide alert or a targeted one, because if it's the later, then I don't have dummies.

 

How is this fair? Is this supposed to actively stop people from stockpiling on chapters?

    Personally I often run out of stuff to read, and while trawling trending can lead to some interesting discoveries, beyond that it's all up to just searching manually because other categories are pretty static.

    And while Hot clearly has a lot of overlap with Ongoing, Popular this week, or Best Rated... it's still not exactly the same, which is good since that's the whole point of the ultra broad ranking lists.

    Maybe unpack this a little, because I'm having trouble understanding your complaint.

    If by 'people', you mean authors, then yeah, I suppose this is biased in favor of someone who releases a chapter a week rather than four chapters at the end of a month, which I don't really have a problem.

    If by 'people', you mean readers... well, if you deeply care that much about whether you're constantly recorded as voting for a story, there's nothing stopping you from going back every two weeks and voting again.  If there's a story you don't care enough about to read regularly and don't want to think about it that often, then why would you care?

The fact that it isn't per chapter might end up with the votes being a better metric than views. I wonder how they'll relate to Favourites metric since mechanically that's the most similar feature in a way. It might be interesting if vote popularity doesn't correlate completely with the otger forms of popularity such as regular views, followers, and ratings. It would definitely be interesting if votes can't be predicted easily by follower count. Maybe they might even correlate with update regularity or something unexpected.

Just add a downvote system or negative reputation for comments, we need a measure for viewers too

Why are 'First' comments acceptable? Such should be against the commenting rules.

This is way better than the 5 star system. No worries about people tanking your score due to them giving .5 scores for doing one little thing they don't like, it's just a vote if you like it.

Can there be a auto refresh vote system, like an option to permanently have a vote on a fiction? it would be like a user driven recommentation system, where we vote on fictions that we like at the moment, but can stop voting for if it gets boring, while recommending the fiction will set it to auto re-vote. The recommend option could replace the favorite system, making favorites on fictions carry much more importance, as for now i dont think they are anything more than user convenience.

    kanadaj
    Admin

    No, a permanent option would go against the entire point of the system.

      While a permanent option doesn't make sense*, being able to manually refresh your vote feels like a pretty important aspect to implement.

      Otherwise, the system itself will add meaningless noise to the data, in the gap between when votes expire and the next chapter is released.

      * I mean, a permanent vote option already exists.  It's called 'favorites'.  You could probably generate an entirely separate list which ranked fics by how many readers had them favorited, and that kind of** sounds like an interesting idea, but the intent of that kind of list would be completely separate from this one.

      ** Well, it sounded interesting right up to the point where I realized that it would just create yet another thing for authors to beg for, which seems like a negative.  Maybe a list that ranked only Completed works by number of readers who have them favorited?

I was not aware that there was a voting system or feature on this site. How will this affect my work goign forward?

I've got 2 bug-ish things to report. The first is the -ish part: there is no visible button on the homepage to show any stories beyond the top 9 in the Hot Fictions list. The second is the bug part: I have at least one of the current top 9 fictions marked as Not Interested but that mark does not show on the story in the Hot Fictions list. 

Not really a fan of this system personally. It just seems redundent and doesn't really improve the site from what I've seen.

I don't really agree with the new system, cuz since this being a dynamic system it won't do justice to the epic tales which have concluded.

Something wrong, I don't see vote on my story 

Can we vote against the new voting system?  I felt the unique rating system here was key feature, not a bug.

Totally redundant feature.

One problem I have with this is how it cramps the home page. So as it is, I think its better to take out one of the novel listings already in the page (Personally, I have never used the "recommended for you" so I would click on the hot fictions more than the recommendations).

Still, I appreaciate the new addition. Although it functions similarly with "Trending", the top voted could show which fictions are appreciated and enjoyed by the current active readers in a specific period (currently at bi-monthly). I also like how it is based on the reader's preference, and cannot be tampered with dislike or 0.5 star bombing that has been happening lately on fictions that went to "Trending" so I think this is a more honest ranking for web user's preference.

Anyway, I am curious how it would change in a long run, since it is a novel listing I want to visit every now and then. Thanks always!

 

how about have a seperate thing for completed fictions

Thanks for the heads up, will be interesting to see how this little experiment does :)

I am liking it so far. I have found some novels that I did not know about without the voting. The system looks to be kind of what they have on Webnovel. 

Am I seeing things, or does the listing exclude fics that the user has marked as 'not interested'?

That's kind of brilliant.  I'd even suggest renaming this as "Hot fics recommended for you" (to make it clear that this is a personal list), and also leaving off fics you're following.

That way, if someone wants to see the full list, they can do so, but the banner trying to get their attention on the home page is exclusively fics that you haven't categorized one way or the other.

I read through some of the comments and most of what I saw was just criticism. So wanted to say that while a lot of the fictions with the most votes are fictions that are already at the top of other lists, the voting system helped me find a couple stories I hadn't stumbled across before, including The Mark of the Fool and Tree of Aeons. 

As someone who skims the various lists looking for new things to read, I see it as another source for finding stories that other people are enjoying that I might like too. And while vote begging is kinda annoying, at least people can't use  this system to be toxic like ratings. 

Overall, I'm a fan of anything that will help me find new stuff to read, and my personal experience with it has me convinced that it's different enough from the other existing lists that it is a value add, though that may change if vote begging gets too agressive.

I'm not certain of the added value of the voting system. What do you believe would be the difference between a ranking based on the voting system and a ranking based on the highest number of views on a single chapter published in the last two weeks?

    kanadaj
    Admin

    That's one of the things we were curious about, yes. The other being, how would authors and readers react, how big the engagement factor would be and how much could authors really influence it intentionally. We have answers now, some of the things being as we suspected, others not quite but it's good to see anyway.

I'd have prefered if Popular this week would have been removed instead.

    kanadaj
    Admin

    Popular This Week is a list that represents a combination of high interest and strong release schedule, which is a priority for many readers. The second new list, if/when it goes live, will more or less end up the same as Hot except without the need to vote.

      Well, we'll see how that will work. Comparing Hot and Popular this week showed from my point of view quite the disadvantages of the popular this week list, in that it favours older stories with lots if chapters over currently popular fictions with still smaller amouts of chapters available.

      And I still had the hope that the need for voting would reduce the amount of authors begging to use the rating system as a voting system.

I can't say what the best answer will be, but as the site grows larger, you'll need some way to avoid the Wattpad problem of only recommending the most popular stories, and thus those being the only stories that are ever read, and thus they remain the most popular in a never-ending cycle.

I would suggest some sort of quick-browse tool. A very simply method of browsing by tags and genre, in a live dashboard format (that doesn't require making all your selections and then hitting a Submit button first; it should start displaying results as soon as you click on your first preference). By default, it should return results in a random order, but with a few pre-set selections to avoid things like stories that are both incomplete and inactive. And there should be choices for the user to sort by rating or popularity, but those shouldn't be checked by default.

Will that work? I don't know. But I think it would be better for browsing unknown stories than the current search tool is.

I will just leave my two cents here after the voting system is being discontinued.

I generally agree, that the voting system as it is right now is not particularly useful as it is a representation of stories that are generally well liked and have a lot of readers.

What I think would be a more useful integration of votes into the system is looking at votes/unique viewer over the last x days. That would give you something similar to trending, but start to expose smaller stories which could help overall story development.

I do understand that this approach is slightly similar to recently and trending, but it puts an emphasis on stories that are enjoyed. Especially since in the early days of writing 1 bad rating can drastically drop the story rating.

I donno if this would be better, but it looks to be a more promising approach.

    kanadaj
    Admin

    The problem is that then you aren't looking at votes, you are looking at conversion rate. The more/harder an author campaigns, the higher the number will be. We do not want to evaluate fictions based on how well the author can convert readers to voters. It'd also be extremely sensitive to manipulation by smaller stories.

      Hmm, that is a really good point. I didn't consider that.

      You mean, that it would overrepresent small stories as they can be manipulated more easily? That is a fair point.